RO unit upgrade questions

[Reef-roach]

Questions for you guys n gals with RO units at home- I've got an old 4 stage bare bones unit in storage, thinking about upgrading it to a BRS 4 stage value plus with a booster pump. What're your thoughts?
What kind of waste water ratio are we talking if upgrading to the water saver?
How much water do you make up at once? I used to make up 10 gallons at a time(unless I accidentally flooded the garage), not realizing making small batches expires your media quicker.
Finally, anyone know about how much water I'd be saving with the booster pump? Unfortunately I don't know what the psi is in the house.
Thanks for your responses.

 

[twilliard]

@AZDesertRat can answer this

 

[redfishbluefish]

I'll have @AZDesertRat fill you in on RO/DI's and Spectrapure.

As far as "expiring" your media....which I'm assuming you are talking about DI resin, simply bypass your DI canister for the first five minutes of startup and you'll save the DI.

I use this from BRS to bypass DI on startup.

 

[CodyRVA]

I bought the "BRS 150 GPD Water Saver Upgrade Kit" for my RODI unit and it easily doubled my production and cut my waste in half. I usually make around 80 gallons of RODI at a time, and this used to take a few days, now takes me maybe half a day, assuming this is the "booster" you're referring to. Your PSI, as you mentioned, is going to indicate how fast you can make water as well as the water your cleaning. Before the booster i was probably making 1 gallon of RODI for every 5 gallons of waste, now its probably closer to 4 gallons of RODI for 5 waste, again, depends on how clean your filters are, PSI, etc. Not everyone is going to have identical results. This upgrade is currently $60, it's well worth the investment.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Don't fall for the water saver BS. It's not that easy. If you have softened water and lower than normal TDS you can probably lower your waste ratio to 3:1 and in rare cases 2:1 but not many owners can run 2:1 and get normal RO membrane life.
Boosters are really intended to save water but they do improve the GPD and rejection rate so DI lasts longer and you make water quicker.
You are smart to make water in larger batches like you point out, it allows the membrane to rid itself of built up solids, I have my ATO storage set up with float switches so it makes at least 11 gallons per cycle and it works well for me.
I love BRS chemicals but their RO is average at best and much of their advice on RO is questionable.
Think about it, there are RO vendors who have done treatment for 25-30 years and hold patents while doing massive research. If saving water was that simple they all would have been doing this decades ago. Truth is they all tried it decades ago and dismissed it since membranes didn't last. Common sense.

 

[Reef-roach]

I'll have @AZDesertRat fill you in on RO/DI's and Spectrapure.

As far as "expiring" your media....which I'm assuming you are talking about DI resin, simply bypass your DI canister for the first five minutes of startup and you'll save the DI.

I use this from BRS to bypass DI on startup.

Thanks for the tip. So bypassing the di for 5 minutes will allow me to make smaller batches of water as needed without blowing through di resin. I was thinking I'd make 100 gallons a whack this time around for efficiency. My wife will be pleased if I don't have to use big water tanks! Thanks for chiming in!

 

[AZDesertRat]

30 seconds to a minute should flush the TDS creep via a DI bypass valve on start up. Your handheld TDS meter will tell you when it's flushed sufficiently.

 

[ngvu1]

I added the aquaticLife booster pump which bumps my water input pressure from 55 to about 100 PSI before the membrane. I get about 1:1.5 to 1:2 (1.5 to 2 gallons of waste ro/di for every gallon of ro/di water); Very efficient and it speeds up the time of making water too. I don't think the aquaticLife booster pump is good for 2 membranes RO/DI systems as it has the auto flush for the membrane. My guess is the first membrane will flush all the junk to the second membrane, but I never really look into that. Someone was asking that question if this booster pump can be used for the 200gpd system and the rep never responded to that question. Some people on Amazon claim they use that and it works "fine"......
Btw, I used to spend up to 2 hours for making 5 gallons of water. Now it is about 45 mins. In these cold days, It takes up to 60 mins for 5 gallons. I forget the rating of my membrane; I think it is a 75gpd, but I am not sure.

Edit:
How fast are you guys, the one with RO/DI systems, making RO/DI water?

 

[Reef-roach]

Don't fall for the water saver BS. It's not that easy. If you have softened water and lower than normal TDS you can probably lower your waste ratio to 3:1 and in rare cases 2:1 but not many owners can run 2:1 and get normal RO membrane life.
Boosters are really intended to save water but they do improve the GPD and rejection rate so DI lasts longer and you make water quicker.
You are smart to make water in larger batches like you point out, it allows the membrane to rid itself of built up solids, I have my ATO storage set up with float switches so it makes at least 11 gallons per cycle and it works well for me.
I love BRS chemicals but their RO is average at best and much of their advice on RO is questionable.
Think about it, there are RO vendors who have done treatment for 25-30 years and hold patents while doing massive research. If saving water was that simple they all would have been doing this decades ago. Truth is they all tried it decades ago and dismissed it since membranes didn't last. Common sense.

Thanks for the input and great point. A couple more questions then.
Which RO unit and media do you prefer?
I'm assuming then, if I have the capacity to store and circulate a month's worth of water, running 100-150 gallons once a month would be more efficient than four 30-40 gallon batches a month?

 

[AZDesertRat]

You want to use your system at least every 10-14 days to keep it fresh and make sure the housings always have water on them when not in use.
I've tried them all but now buy all my RO/DI stuff directly from Spectrapure. My DI life went from 150 gallons to over 1000 gallons, membrane life is over 8 years and counting and carbon block is 18-24 months when I monitor finished water for chlorine breakthru.

You will get a lot of users who jump in and say a booster or dual membranes is saving them a fortune but the truth is they are not monitoring their RO membrane condition and life which starts adding up as they plug and need replacement. I keep log books on my RO/DI so know what is what.

 

[Reef-roach]

I added the aquaticLife booster pump which bumps my water input pressure from 55 to about 100 PSI before the membrane. I get about 1:1.5 to 1:2 (1.5 to 2 gallons of waste ro/di for every gallon of ro/di water); Very efficient and it speeds up the time of making water too. I don't think the aquaticLife booster pump is good for 2 membranes RO/DI systems as it has the auto flush for the membrane. My guess is the first membrane will flush all the junk to the second membrane, but I never really look into that. Someone was asking that question if this booster pump can be used for the 200gpd system and the rep never responded to that question. Some people on Amazon claim they use that and it works "fine"......
Btw, I used to spend up to 2 hours for making 5 gallons of water. Now it is about 45 mins. In these cold days, It takes up to 60 mins for 5 gallons. I forget the rating of my membrane; I think it is a 75gpd, but I am not sure.

How fast are you making RO/DI water?

I could do 25 gallons a week or 100+ gallons a month. I haul about 25 gallons a week from the fish store for the past couple years. It's gotten real old!

 

[ngvu1]

25 gallons a week, that is 5 jugs to carry in and out.....You need RO/DI system to save time and money

I could do 25 gallons a week or 100+ gallons a month. I haul about 25 gallons a week from the fish store for the past couple years. It's gotten real old!

 

[CodyRVA]

I cant see spending the money on a Spectrapure. Granted your filters may last longer, but unless you're making a monster amount of water, the money spent on replacement DI Resin, Blocks, will take a long time to cover the added cost of the RODI unit. I've been using an AquaFX Barracuda 4 stage with the BRS Water Saver upgrade and have yet to replace any DI resin, blocks, etc and those go for far cheaper by comparison. Again, still depends on how dirty your initial water is.

 

[Reef-roach]

You want to use your system at least every 10-14 days to keep it fresh and make sure the housings always have water on them when not in use.
I've tried them all but now buy all my RO/DI stuff directly from Spectrapure. My DI life went from 150 gallons to over 1000 gallons, membrane life is over 8 years and counting and carbon block is 18-24 months when I monitor finished water for chlorine breakthru.

You will get a lot of users who jump in and say a booster or dual membranes is saving them a fortune but the truth is they are not monitoring their RO membrane condition and life which starts adding up as they plug and need replacement. I keep log books on my RO/DI so know what is what.

Thanks for bringing your experience and knowledge to the table. I'll take a look at Spectrapure as well. So you don't run a booster pump then? What's your psi?

 

[ngvu1]

So what does Spectrapure do to make the membrane and carbon blocks last that long? Could you explain more about "I monitor finished water for chlorine breakthru."?
Your numbers are very impressive and I would like to copy that; maybe not that good but the closer the better

Thank you

You want to use your system at least every 10-14 days to keep it fresh and make sure the housings always have water on them when not in use.
I've tried them all but now buy all my RO/DI stuff directly from Spectrapure. My DI life went from 150 gallons to over 1000 gallons, membrane life is over 8 years and counting and carbon block is 18-24 months when I monitor finished water for chlorine breakthru.

You will get a lot of users who jump in and say a booster or dual membranes is saving them a fortune but the truth is they are not monitoring their RO membrane condition and life which starts adding up as they plug and need replacement. I keep log books on my RO/DI so know what is what.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Yes I do run a booster pump, my tap pressure is 64-68 psi and I boost that to 95-100.
Spectrapure systems cost $125, not sure why you think they are expensive? They have got a really good deal right now for $160 which includes a full set of replacement filters and DI cartridge as well as a handheld TDS meter and a low range chlorine test kit.
Spectrapure is different in several ways. You can read all about the differences on their FAQ page here:
http://spectrapure.com/frequently-asked-questions
here are a few of the threads you will find:
http://spectrapure.com/maximize-performance-minimize-cost
http://spectrapure.com/frequently-asked-questions-p2#UNDERSTANDING
http://spectrapure.com/spectrapure.com/frequently-asked-questions-p2#99percent

Basically they use only high quality, low micron, absolute or near absolute rated sediment filters to protect the carbon blocks billions of tiny microscopic pores so they actually do what they were intended for. This is where the low range chlorine test kit comes in, since it doesn't foul or plig with particulates and colloidal materials it can last its rated 20,000 gallons as long as you monitor its effluent. They specially treat and either batch test or hand test all their RO membranes which improves the rejection rate, up to 99% versus 96-97% on average from a dry Dow Filmtec membrane. They custom blend all their own DI resins based on thousands of hours of testing. Notice when you look at most Spectrapure cartridges the resin is layered, this is intentional as they ahve learned how to take advantage of changes in pH and other changes within the resin bed. They use only capillary tube flow restrictors that you the end user adjust to fit your exact unique water conditions, it is not one size fits all. There is much more but I will yet you research for yourself.

Unless you have softened water and low TDS leave the waste ratio at 3:1 to 4:1 depending on how hard the water is. Start lowering the ratio and membrane life and performance suffers.

 

[ngvu1]

The Spectrapure media sizes are compatible with other 10 inch canisters correct? I just want to buy the media without replacing the existing canisters...

 

[AZDesertRat]

Yes they are standard size. If replacing the membrane or even if keeping the existing membrane I recommend a capillary tube flow restrictor and take the few minutes to trim and adjust it for your water conditions. Fixed type restrictors are rarely correct.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Good info here...I'm following.

 

[ngvu1]

Thanks for the info. However, "a capillary tube flow restrictor and take the few minutes to trim and adjust it for your water conditions" sounds like French to me and I only can say hello and good bye in French

Yes they are standard size. If replacing the membrane or even if keeping the existing membrane I recommend a capillary tube flow restrictor and take the few minutes to trim and adjust it for your water conditions. Fixed type restrictors are rarely correct.