Rock and cycling conundrum...

[fogcutter]

Ready to buy some rock for my system build so it can cure while I get everything else ready. I thought I had a handle on things but with so many choices I feel like my head is going to explode. Going with a full reef with a sump and protein skimmer and fuge. Leaning towards a Triton system.

I'm going to go with man-made rock as I feel it's the more responsible thing (for me) to do. As opposed to when 20 years ago there's a ton of choices now including purple colored/ready to go rock.

I have a very specific aqua-sculpt pattern in mind that involves a rock wall with a few mini-caves and a 3 inch sand bed. Still working out where my potential dead spots will be etc. So with reef ready dry rock I'm reading that you can have the cycle time be very short.

My questions involve how best to cycle the tank. I had thought to treat the dry rock like regular and cycle it in an external tub for a few weeks. That way if I have the opportunity to add a piece of LR from an established tank I can do so safely. Does that sound reasonable?

As I keep reading though - I'm seeing the use of reef starter kits, rotifer/copepods breeding kits - phytoplankton......it's just too much...

Anyone have a tried and true way to use dry rock (and what type?) and how to best cycle your tank?

P.S. I know that rotifers are mostly just for fish and not specific to reef tanks

 

[SPR1968]

Firstly welcome to R2R and it’s great to have you with us on the forums!

You can cycle your tank using traditional methods which is good, but me personally I like the instant cycle using bacteria in a bottle and then the system is ready to go. In my case I’ve used ATM Colony in 2 occasions without any issues.

Here’s a link which you may find helpful

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/

Just read up as much as you can and anything your unsure of just ask and the guys and gals on here will be only to happy to help.

 

[NY_Caveman]

FWIW, I cured my dry rock like this.

• Good rinse and scrubbing with tap
• Two weeks with bleach:tap (1:10) and a powerhead
• Good scrubbing
• Two weeks with RO/DI and dechlorinator with a powerhead (with 100% water change in the middle)
• Then it sat for two months with a powerhead and weekly large 75-100% water changes
• Once Phosphate plateaued, I switched to saltwater and added a live rock. Powerhead continued and now a heater. I continued with weekly large water changes for five months until my tank was ready (it was delayed)

I use Phosphate as a measure of readiness. Once it plateaus I figure it has cured as much as it can. Once it is cycled in the saltwater (zero Ammonia) it can be used. Just remember, once cycled, bacteria will still need to adjust to any livestock so move slow. The tank still needs to mature.

EDIT: and welcome to R2R!

 

[fogcutter]

Thanks....but was that using live rock or dry rock/man made?

btw...posting a bunch of threads today because I'm literally stuck in Africa for a few more days with nothing to do but research.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

i started my last tank with acid bathed ceramic rock and zero “live” rock. i used fritz turbostart and the tank was cycled in a few days. i typically recommend people use pure ammonia but fritz worked well for me.

 

[NY_Caveman]

Mine was a small amount of dry rock, about 1/3 of my total. When I later added it to the display I also added the rest of the rock which was Pacific live rock. I would not bleach or use acid on any rock with life or bacteria.

Also, since you mentioned it, I did seed the rocks with copepods in the bucket about a month after they were in saltwater. When I added to the display I added more as well as a few other critters from IPSF.com

 

[pshootr]

Hello, and welcome to reef2reef! It looks like you have already gotten some great advice for curing dry Rock.

I wanted to add that at least here in the US, there are a couple places in Florida which aquaculture Rock collected from inland. So what they do is they place this rock in the Gulf for a couple years. Where it cultures into live rock. This way there's no impact on the ecosystem. what's nice about this rock is it is attractive because it has lots of life on it. And also your tank has virtually no cycle, and can be stocked almost immediately. Although it is a little pricey when you factor in shipping. Luckily I live close to a facility (Tampa Bay Saltwater)which does this, and I can have it ground shipped overnight for $0.50 a pound. Either way you can't go wrong. It just takes longer for dry Rock to become attractive.having said that some of the purple dry Rock available at least provides some aesthetic.

 

[fogcutter]

Thanks for the replies...didn't realize the TB rock didn't need to cycle. I'll have to look in to that though truth be told...I'm not trying to cycle fast...just trying to narrow my choices. Sucks to be me though....I just moved from Lakeland a month ago...in Africa for work for a few more days. The Fritz turbostart looks promising though....with maybe the Walt Smith dry rock?

 

[pshootr]

Thanks for the replies...didn't realize the TB rock didn't need to cycle. I'll have to look in to that though truth be told...I'm not trying to cycle fast...just trying to narrow my choices. Sucks to be me though....I just moved from Lakeland a month ago...in Africa for work for a few more days. The Fritz turbostart looks promising though....with maybe the Walt Smith dry rock?

I'm sure that the cycle time will vary depending on how far it has to be shipped what the temperatures are Etc. But I have talked with people who have added livestock to their tank within the first week even clams and corals without losing anything. So it is possible. For me I am considering it not so much for the cycle time, although that is attractive. It's more about the life on the rock. Macroalgae sponges possible corals Etc

 

[pshootr]

Live rock, and from what I understand the sand from TBS both have lots of micro fauna. Which means your tank should take less time to behave like a mature tank in theory.

I am likely convincing myself haha. But it does make sense.

Edit: I should have mentioned though, that ultra-fast cycle is when using the package. Package comes with some killer live sand apparently. As well as a clean up crew.

 

[Matt Carden]

These also supply responsibly aquacultured live rock from the Keys

https://www.kpaquatics.com

 

[pshootr]

These also supply responsibly aquacultured live rock from the Keys

https://www.kpaquatics.com

I have heard of them as well. Apparently they are known for a wide variety of macroalgae. But I would have to pick up at the airport from them probably. If it was shipped by ground, it might not be in such good condition by the time it gets to me. I am much closer to Tampa. And picking up at the airport would be considerably more expensive I'm sure.

 

[Matt Carden]

I forgot about the airport thing

They also claim to be Apstasia free?

 

[pshootr]

I forgot about the airport thing

They also claim to be Apstasia free?

I was just looking at their site, and yes they say that the rock is 100% apt Aptasia free. That means you don't have to pay for it [emoji23]

It appears that they have some really nice rock. And they get excellent reviews it appears. I guess I will dig a little deeper and see what I can find out about shipping and so on. I know that TBS ships their Rock in bags of water, which I like.

I was just looking in the coral section on the KP site, and they have some pretty cool zoa's for pretty cheap. Not Designer ones, but still pretty nice. Very reasonably priced.

 

[fogcutter]

So presumably if I order from one of these companies I would pretty much have to be ready to place it in my tank right? Otherwise you're looking at die-off and having to cure again. Since time in not an issue I think I'm resigned to finding some nice dead dry rock and spritz with the Fritz...lol. I do still like the idea of purchasing some dry Pukani and being able to chisel out some caves....see? TOO many choices!! lol Thanks for the help all.

If I do go with the Walt Smith type rock, that doesn't need to be cured correct?

 

[pshootr]

So presumably if I order from one of these companies I would pretty much have to be ready to place it in my tank right? Otherwise you're looking at die-off and having to cure again. Since time in not an issue I think I'm resigned to finding some nice dead dry rock and spritz with the Fritz...lol. I do still like the idea of purchasing some dry Pukani and being able to chisel out some caves....see? TOO many choices!! lol Thanks for the help all.

If I do go with the Walt Smith type rock, that doesn't need to be cured correct?

Yes you would definitely want to have your tank setup with saltwater and circulation when the live rock arrives.

I'm not sure if the Walt Smith rock needs to be cured or not.

On the KP site, they mention minimum order of 50 lb due to the cost of Airline shipping. However they also say they have a 20 lb package with free overnight shipping. Sounds pretty straightforward, but I'm still somehow confused about this LOL

 

[NY_Caveman]

FWIW, for any shipped rock I would be ready to cure it. Lots of variables. On a new build, curing in the tank would be fine, but it may smell for a bit.

 

[pshootr]

FWIW, for any shipped rock I would be ready to cure it. Lots of variables. On a new build, curing in the tank would be fine, but it may smell for a bit.

KP suggest 30% water changes for the first 3 days. Then they say it's usually cycled between 1 and 3 weeks

I also just noticed you can add multiple 20 lb packages in the shipping appears to still be free. So it would appear that shipping is included in their price. The odd thing is, they mention a 50lb minimum. But there are 20 lb options with free shipping. So strange

 

[fermentedhiker]

Man made rock and mined rock(reefsaver, marco, reefcleaners, reefrocks.net) don't need to be cured as they don't have trapped organics in them. So no acid or bleach soaking required. They just need to be cycled(either in a bucket or in tank). Ocean dry rock(like pukani when you could get it) needs to be cured to reduce/eliminate having the trapped organics break down in the tank, then cycled. Ocean collected rock that is shipped damp(kpaquatics, gulfliverock) Likely have significant die off of organisms that can't handle being out of the water for the time it takes to ship it. They will likely require a short cure time, but if you want to preserve the life that comes on it you probably need to do it in a tank with a lights. I would do it in the DT but before I added other livestock and just run carbon and overskim for a week or two to make sure it's stable. Wet rock like TBS should have very little die off(there will always be some because your tank is not the ocean but it should be minimal) so should be added directly to the DT.

Just my .02 cents

 

[pshootr]

Man made rock and mined rock(reefsaver, marco, reefcleaners, reefrocks.net) don't need to be cured as they don't have trapped organics in them. So no acid or bleach soaking required. They just need to be cycled(either in a bucket or in tank). Ocean dry rock(like pukani when you could get it) needs to be cured to reduce/eliminate having the trapped organics break down in the tank, then cycled. Ocean collected rock that is shipped damp(kpaquatics, gulfliverock) Likely have significant die off of organisms that can't handle being out of the water for the time it takes to ship it. They will likely require a short cure time, but if you want to preserve the life that comes on it you probably need to do it in a tank with a lights. I would do it in the DT but before I added other livestock and just run carbon and overskim for a week or two to make sure it's stable. Wet rock like TBS should have very little die off(there will always be some because your tank is not the ocean but it should be minimal) so should be added directly to the DT.

Just my .02 cents

Very nice overview! Thank you very much for taking the time to explain all of this. As you said TBS ships The Rock in water. And that is a very attractive option to me where it concerns ordering live rock.

Thanks again man, you rock. [emoji6]