Ron Reefman's Rock Flower experience

[tankstudy]

Wow! That's a huge number compared to my experience. I'd go crazy for 50+ babies. Do most of yours survive?

At the current time, my survival rate is about 15-20%. Larger ones have the best survival rate. They can come as large as pencil erasers.

Do you get any advance notice of either the release of sperm or the release of the babies?

For sperm, you look for the neck stretch of the male as it forms a chalice looking shape. Once you see this, it means that spawning time is either occurring or happening real soon. For babies, its really tricky but a lot of times, females will start to look sick or shrivel up. Some will even lose some color if they are holding a ton of offspring. As I type this right now, one of my females is rather shriveled and sickly looking but I know shes about to blow. I see a few babies at her lips, she's trying to hold them in for a bit longer it. When they are ready to release, their mouth opens up completely and dumps them.

Eggs, are very very rare to see. Here is a photo I took of a female pulling her eggs out during a spawn. You can see all the eggs piled up at her mouth.

Is it during the full moon? Is more likely at night than during the day?

It does not appear to be connected with the full moon. I have seen them spawning as early as mid-day.

Or do you spend way too much time looking at your tank so you end up seeing everything? LOL! Just kidding. But any help with this would be most useful. Thanks in advance.

Ron

I have about ~40 adults. Many are 2-4 years old in a 20 nuvo. With that many, I have a high chance of seeing things occur. Below is a picture I took earlier in January.

 

[JoshH]

At the current time, my survival rate is about 15-20%. Larger ones have the best survival rate. They can come as large as pencil erasers.



For sperm, you look for the neck stretch of the male as it forms a chalice looking shape. Once you see this, it means that spawning time is either occurring or happening real soon. For babies, its really tricky but a lot of times, females will start to look sick or shrivel up. Some will even lose some color if they are holding a ton of offspring. As I type this right now, one of my females is rather shriveled and sickly looking but I know shes about to blow. I see a few babies at her lips, she's trying to hold them in for a bit longer it. When they are ready to release, their mouth opens up completely and dumps them.

Eggs, are very very rare to see. Here is a photo I took of a female pulling her eggs out during a spawn. You can see all the eggs piled up at her mouth.

It does not appear to be connected with the full moon. I have seen them spawning as early as mid-day.



I have about ~40 adults. Many are 2-4 years old in a 20 nuvo. With that many, I have a high chance of seeing things occur. Below is a picture I took earlier in January.

Beautiful set up was thinking about doing something similar with a Nuvo 10. I might have missed it but what lighting did you have over it?

@Ron Reefman excellent information being shared here and almost has me confident enough to start my own RFA tank

 

[Zeal]

So whats the cheat code for these bad boys to spawn? I absolutely love them. And I also live in Miami, I had no idea you can go to the keys and collect them...

 

[Ron Reefman]

At the current time, my survival rate is about 15-20%. Larger ones have the best survival rate. They can come as large as pencil erasers.

For sperm, you look for the neck stretch of the male as it forms a chalice looking shape. Once you see this, it means that spawning time is either occurring or happening real soon. For babies, its really tricky but a lot of times, females will start to look sick or shrivel up. Some will even lose some color if they are holding a ton of offspring. As I type this right now, one of my females is rather shriveled and sickly looking but I know shes about to blow. I see a few babies at her lips, she's trying to hold them in for a bit longer it. When they are ready to release, their mouth opens up completely and dumps them.

Eggs, are very very rare to see. Here is a photo I took of a female pulling her eggs out during a spawn. You can see all the eggs piled up at her mouth.

It does not appear to be connected with the full moon. I have seen them spawning as early as mid-day.

I have about ~40 adults. Many are 2-4 years old in a 20 nuvo. With that many, I have a high chance of seeing things occur. Below is a picture I took earlier in January.

Thanks for sharing your experiences here. I think many here will find it useful... I know for sure that I will! I wonder if my birth rate of about 15 per event is the result of a 15% or 20% survival rate? I'm absolutely going to have to start paying more attention.

I'd never seen a photo where you could see the females eggs before, that's very cool.

Your big tank photo is incredible! I'm looking forward to the day when my tank will look similar to yours. The only place I've seen more RFA at one time is at VIP Reef (an LFS) in Miami. The owner is also a collector and he sorts his into 3 quality levels. Each tank was about 36"x19" with a very shallow black sand bottom and the sand barely shows through for all the anemones!

Beautiful set up was thinking about doing something similar with a Nuvo 10. I might have missed it but what lighting did you have over it?

@Ron Reefman excellent information being shared here and almost has me confident enough to start my own RFA tank

I hope tankstudy will tell you what he uses (I'd like to know as well). I have a Reef Breeders Photon V2 over my 50g cube. My old 120g tank (just torn down and sold) had a Photon V2 as well as two 21ledusa strip fixtures. A blue and white one at the front of the tank running a bit more white than the Photon and an all blue one at the back of the tank addin a lot of blue. The extra light wasn't so much for the corals or anemones as to get the look of a bigger tank. The blue in back made the tank look more like it was 3' thick rather than just 2 feet thick.

If you want an RFA tank, I'm more than happy to share anything I can with you. IMHO RFA's are pretty hearty. And once they find a good location (usually attached to a rock or the bottom glass and at the sand) they rarely move. I've been keeping most of the adults in 1" PVC end caps and pushing them down into the sand. Once they are there for a day or two, none of mine have ever moved again. And this way they are pretty easy for you to move if you want, or to pull one out of the tank and give to somebody else.

So whats the cheat code for these bad boys to spawn? I absolutely love them. And I also live in Miami, I had no idea you can go to the keys and collect them...

'Cheat code'? I think they just need to be full grown adults and well fed in a mature tank. At least that's my experience.

Since you are in Miami, it would be easy for you to go to VIP Reef and talk to Frank, the owner, and see his inventory. He collects them in the Keys... but he won't tell you where in the Keys! Even I don't know for sure! I've collected a few over the years. I've done a lot of snorkeling (no scuba diving) in the Middle Keys over the last 15 years. I'd even share a couple of good snorkel spots.

However, my experience has been that the RFA's in shallow water are a lot less colorful and somewhat less fluorescent than the deep water RFA's that I've been told come from 30' to 50' deep. Given I don't know where the reef is for the colorful RFA's and that I don't scuba dive, I'm concentrating on breeding instead!

BTW, if you are just interested in snorkeling and collecting (legally) in the Florida Keys, I'm happy to share my experiences. You need a Florida Saltwater fishing license (unless you are over 65 years old) and you need to pay strict attention to the state mandated limits:
http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/recreational/aquarium-species/

Stony corals, live rock and some other things are strictly prohibited. Fines are way worse than speeding tickets. And FWC does do checks both at boat ramps, beaches and even on the water! And there is very little out there that is worth a $1000 or bigger fine.

However, over the years I have collected: emerald crabs, hermit crabs, porcelain crabs, various snails, serpent stars, brittle stars, sea stars, sea cucumbers (sand sifters & filter feeders), rock flower anemones, curly-Q anemones, gorgonian corals, zoas, ricordia, coral banded shrimp, pistol shrimp, spaghetti worms, clams, flame scallops, juvenile tropical fish, nudibranchs, upside down jellyfish, urchins and sponges. But the limits on most of these are very low. Take zoas as an example. You are allowed to collect just 5 polyps per licensed collector per day! Plus the total 'bag' limit is just 20 animals per day. And it's been a rare day that I ever hit my limit. Not because I couldn't, but because I didn't have the need.

This photo is typical of a couple of acres of shallow water (1' to 3') off a small island in the Middle Keys.
P5220020 R1 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

 

[JoshH]

I hope tankstudy will tell you what he uses (I'd like to know as well).

From the reflection they look like Radions to me. Either way it's good, I was planning an AI Prime so not far off from what either of you have

 

[Redleg]

Great thread. I'm planning a caribbean biotope tank. I may have to include a couple of these. They look amazing.

 

[tankstudy]

From the reflection they look like Radions to me. Either way it's good, I was planning an AI Prime so not far off from what either of you have

Yes I use a radion gen 3. In the photo, the anemones are sitting under 40-50 par under a slightly modified AB+ spectrum. At the current time, I have added 4 AB+ bulbs w/ the gen 3. The par is now sitting at ~50-70 par, however, this is mainly for the LPS.

As for increasing the chances of spawning to occur, I find that stable water water parameters is the biggest thing. If your water parameters swing and the anemones get somewhat sick, they can skip the spawning till they are happy again which could be a very long time.

 

[Ron Reefman]

From the reflection they look like Radions to me. Either way it's good, I was planning an AI Prime so not far off from what either of you have

I think most any good fixture can do the job. I may be seriously in the minority, but in terms of growing healthy and colorful coral, I think a Mars Aqua can do just as good a job as an Eco Tech Radion. It's just light and it's more than bright enough to have the PAR that's needed.

Great thread. I'm planning a caribbean biotope tank. I may have to include a couple of these. They look amazing.

If you think they look good in the pics on here, wait till you see them in a dark room with lots of blue leds lighting... think Pandora at night in the movie Avatar! It's crazy cool.

 

[dsfirstsltwater]

Wow this is all incredible info. I just started collecting rock flowers and I'm very much addicted [emoji3]. My wife actually turned me on to them. Went to a reef expo and she saw them and told me to go check out the booth and that was it lol.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Wow this is all incredible info. I just started collecting rock flowers and I'm very much addicted [emoji3]. My wife actually turned me on to them. Went to a reef expo and she saw them and told me to go check out the booth and that was it lol.

Who was the vendor you saw with them?

I was at Reef-A-Palooza in Orlando about 4 years ago and an LFS from Miami, VIP Reef, and I noticed from a distance they had Ocean Revive led fixtures over his tanks. That's what I saw at first because I used to work for Ocean Revive (retired now). So I went over to talk to the owner and then saw a 2'x3' shallow tank full of crazy colored RFA's. I was hooked. I had a couple RFA's already, but they were the more plain looking ones that I can collect when I go snorkeling in the Florida Keys.

 

[dsfirstsltwater]

Who was the vendor you saw with them?

I was at Reef-A-Palooza in Orlando about 4 years ago and an LFS from Miami, VIP Reef, and I noticed from a distance they had Ocean Revive led fixtures over his tanks. That's what I saw at first because I used to work for Ocean Revive (retired now). So I went over to talk to the owner and then saw a 2'x3' shallow tank full of crazy colored RFA's. I was hooked. I had a couple RFA's already, but they were the more plain looking ones that I can collect when I go snorkeling in the Florida Keys.

I don't remember the name but it's out of Ohio. They came to a first annual reef expo in CT

 

[Ron Reefman]

OK, I'm going to start looking for a couple of the best looking RFA's I can find in hopes of adding them to my breeding stock. I'm even going to admit that price isn't a huge obstacle. By best looking I mean these criteria; lots of color, preferably uncommon colors and/or a mix of colors in the face and the tentacles, really high fluorescence. If you have a really crazy cool RFA, who did you buy it from?

 

[Rispa]

Check out https://www.austinaquafarms.com/?s=Anemone

 

[VTBig053]

OK, I'm going to start looking for a couple of the best looking RFA's I can find in hopes of adding them to my breeding stock. I'm even going to admit that price isn't a huge obstacle. By best looking I mean these criteria; lots of color, preferably uncommon colors and/or a mix of colors in the face and the tentacles, really high fluorescence. If you have a really crazy cool RFA, who did you buy it from?

Aqua SD has a bunch of nice ones available right now and 30% off through the weekend.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Thanks for the leads guys. If/when I buy a new RFA I'll make a post about it!

 

[Ron Reefman]

Let’s discuss where your RFA’s are in your tank, i.e. on the rocks, at the edge of a rock, in the sand or do you have some other location?

In the wild, the shallow water RFA’s that I see are almost always attached to rocks that have a hole. The nem sets its foot in the hole and can retract into the hole when disturbed or when ingesting food it has caught. Many of them are in holes on the vertical surface of the rock and away from the sand. But almost as many or in holes that are on horizontal surfaces and may have sand around them as well. Sometimes there is no sand, sometimes just a little sand and sometimes the sand is 2 or 3” deep.

The first time I tried to place a number of RFA’s on a flat rock, they all moved to the edge of the rock at the sand. Some even attached just under the bottom of the flat rock and reached up around the edge to be above the sand. However, I have seen a couple of photos of people’s tanks with RFA’s attached to rocks well up away from the sand. I assume these nems have their foot in a hole they like and are happy there as well.

What I’ve been doing most recently is buying various sizes of PVC end caps. Before I put a new RFA (or move one for some reason) I pick an end cap that is just a bit bigger in diameter inside than the RFA’s foot (yes, it’s a real guessing game). Then the PVC end cap and RFA go into a 16oz deli cup full of tank water. About 95% of the time, the nem settles down inside the PVC end cap and attaches. It may happen quickly, it may take a couple of days. Then I can take the PVC end cap and transfer it to the tank. I push the end cap down into the sand so that just a tiny bit of the end cap’s rim is exposed above the sand.

At this point I’ve never had a RFA move from the end cap. After a week or so, I’ll often go back and push the end cap down just a bit more so the rim disappears in the sand. At that point the sand will start to get inside the end cap with the nem. I have 10 of my bigger RFA’s in end caps now. The other 20+ RFA’s in my tank are loose and fending for themselves. Most of them fairly small and attached to the edges of rocks at the sand.

I like this way of keeping some of my RFA’s. It allows me to keep the bigger, more mature and possibly ready to mate nems close to each other for better potential spawning. It also makes it really easy to pull one out of the tank if I decide to sell one to a friend or customer who comes to my house and falls in love with them. And I have to admit, that does happen quite often! That visitors fall in love with them, not that I sell them… at least not until they’re about 2” in diameter.

Here is a photo where a couple of the RFA's are a bit retracted and you can see the PVC end caps.
20180622_144452 R1 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

 

[VTBig053]

Let’s discuss where your RFA’s are in your tank, i.e. on the rocks, at the edge of a rock, in the sand or do you have some other location?

In the wild, the shallow water RFA’s that I see are almost always attached to rocks that have a hole. The nem sets its foot in the hole and can retract into the hole when disturbed or when ingesting food it has caught. Many of them are in holes on the vertical surface of the rock and away from the sand. But almost as many or in holes that are on horizontal surfaces and may have sand around them as well. Sometimes there is no sand, sometimes just a little sand and sometimes the sand is 2 or 3” deep.

The first time I tried to place a number of RFA’s on a flat rock, they all moved to the edge of the rock at the sand. Some even attached just under the bottom of the flat rock and reached up around the edge to be above the sand. However, I have seen a couple of photos of people’s tanks with RFA’s attached to rocks well up away from the sand. I assume these nems have their foot in a hole they like and are happy there as well.

What I’ve been doing most recently is buying various sizes of PVC end caps. Before I put a new RFA (or move one for some reason) I pick an end cap that is just a bit bigger in diameter inside than the RFA’s foot (yes, it’s a real guessing game). Then the PVC end cap and RFA go into a 16oz deli cup full of tank water. About 95% of the time, the nem settles down inside the PVC end cap and attaches. It may happen quickly, it may take a couple of days. Then I can take the PVC end cap and transfer it to the tank. I push the end cap down into the sand so that just a tiny bit of the end cap’s rim is exposed above the sand.

At this point I’ve never had a RFA move from the end cap. After a week or so, I’ll often go back and push the end cap down just a bit more so the rim disappears in the sand. At that point the sand will start to get inside the end cap with the nem. I have 10 of my bigger RFA’s in end caps now. The other 20+ RFA’s in my tank are loose and fending for themselves. Most of them fairly small and attached to the edges of rocks at the sand.

I like this way of keeping some of my RFA’s. It allows me to keep the bigger, more mature and possibly ready to mate nems close to each other for better potential spawning. It also makes it really easy to pull one out of the tank if I decide to sell one to a friend or customer who comes to my house and falls in love with them. And I have to admit, that does happen quite often! That visitors fall in love with them, not that I sell them… at least not until they’re about 2” in diameter.

Here is a photo where a couple of the RFA's are a bit retracted and you can see the PVC end caps.
20180622_144452 R1 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

All 3 of mine are in the sand, 2 near the base of my rock work, and the third is a wanderer. It moves along the corner of the tank glass every 1-2 weeks it seems.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Nobody else has any links to a seller for really good looking RFA's? Come on now, help a guy out here. Please!

 

[VTBig053]

Nobody else has any links to a seller for really good looking RFA's? Come on now, help a guy out here. Please!

I just picked up two nice ones during the Top Shelf Aquatics live sale on Saturday.

Salt Critters has a few nice looking ones and for reasonable prices - https://www.saltcritters.com/1601-rock-flower-anemones?p=2. I’ve never ordered from them so I can’t comment on quality of the live stock/shipping practices.

 

[Jet915]

Horrible cell phone pic but I got these 2 from gotcorals.com, great customer service.