Ron Reefman's Rock Flower experience

[Baldguy]

Ron, have you ever been to Donavons Reef lfs in Florida. That's DREEF on Ebay. Colors look a little too bright so pics might have been worked on. Still look good though. AquaSD has some nice ones also. I'm holding off until I see something that blows me away.

 

[mmw64]

Let’s discuss where your RFA’s are in your tank, i.e. on the rocks, at the edge of a rock, in the sand or do you have some other location?

In the wild, the shallow water RFA’s that I see are almost always attached to rocks that have a hole. The nem sets its foot in the hole and can retract into the hole when disturbed or when ingesting food it has caught. Many of them are in holes on the vertical surface of the rock and away from the sand. But almost as many or in holes that are on horizontal surfaces and may have sand around them as well. Sometimes there is no sand, sometimes just a little sand and sometimes the sand is 2 or 3” deep.

The first time I tried to place a number of RFA’s on a flat rock, they all moved to the edge of the rock at the sand. Some even attached just under the bottom of the flat rock and reached up around the edge to be above the sand. However, I have seen a couple of photos of people’s tanks with RFA’s attached to rocks well up away from the sand. I assume these nems have their foot in a hole they like and are happy there as well.

What I’ve been doing most recently is buying various sizes of PVC end caps. Before I put a new RFA (or move one for some reason) I pick an end cap that is just a bit bigger in diameter inside than the RFA’s foot (yes, it’s a real guessing game). Then the PVC end cap and RFA go into a 16oz deli cup full of tank water. About 95% of the time, the nem settles down inside the PVC end cap and attaches. It may happen quickly, it may take a couple of days. Then I can take the PVC end cap and transfer it to the tank. I push the end cap down into the sand so that just a tiny bit of the end cap’s rim is exposed above the sand.

At this point I’ve never had a RFA move from the end cap. After a week or so, I’ll often go back and push the end cap down just a bit more so the rim disappears in the sand. At that point the sand will start to get inside the end cap with the nem. I have 10 of my bigger RFA’s in end caps now. The other 20+ RFA’s in my tank are loose and fending for themselves. Most of them fairly small and attached to the edges of rocks at the sand.

I like this way of keeping some of my RFA’s. It allows me to keep the bigger, more mature and possibly ready to mate nems close to each other for better potential spawning. It also makes it really easy to pull one out of the tank if I decide to sell one to a friend or customer who comes to my house and falls in love with them. And I have to admit, that does happen quite often! That visitors fall in love with them, not that I sell them… at least not until they’re about 2” in diameter.

Here is a photo where a couple of the RFA's are a bit retracted and you can see the PVC end caps.
20180622_144452 R1 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

So, the deli cups have lids and just float around the tank or are they fastened down some how?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Ron, have you ever been to Donavons Reef lfs in Florida. That's DREEF on Ebay. Colors look a little too bright so pics might have been worked on. Still look good though. AquaSD has some nice ones also. I'm holding off until I see something that blows me away.

I agree that both these sites are using photographic techniques that enhance the look of the RFA's they have online. Any time you see a photo with great colors, very little of no white in the photo (what you think should be white is a soft blueish color) and a black background, be skeptical... VERY skeptical! I was at MACNA a few years ago and a professional underwater photographer had a booth there. A vendor was selling RFA's and the photographer showed me how he can take a VERY blue only light and use a special yellow filter and make the RFA's look just like these photos. The problem is that it's TOO much color and there is no white. The white in the anemone is turned pale blue. So I don't trust any of these photos.

Ask the seller of a WYSIWYG RFA to send you a photo under normal white light and it will look incredibly different! I did this with Cultured Reef in Maine and Holly, the owner, sent me all the photos I wanted. So good, honest vendors can do it. If they won't, I wouldn't buy from them.

I did send an email to DREEF and explained I'm looking for ultra high end RFA's and I'm willing to pay for them. But I don't trust the photos. Since I live in SW Florida it's wouldn't be a big deal for me to drive to their facility so I could see them in person. When I get an answer I'll post it in this thread!

So, the deli cups have lids and just float around the tank or are they fastened down some how?

I assume what you are asking about is when I put a PVC end cap in a deli cup and place a RFA in the end cap. Right? OK, I don't put the deli cup back in the aquarium, at least not for 2 to 4 days. I leave the deli cup sitting beside the aquarium. Every morning and every evening I dump the water from the deli cup down the sink and refill it from the aquarium. This is more than enough to keep them happy and 95% of the time the RFA will settle into the PVC end cap.

Now I may, after the RFA is settled in, put the entire deli cup/PVC end cap/RFA in the aquarium. If you have an issue with this being too light, so it floats or is easily moved around in the tank, I'd just add some weight to the cup. Maybe add a couple of very small rocks to the cup? Or rather than use a deli cup in the first place, use a small glass bowl. All I'm trying to do is keep the water movement around the RFA in the end cap down to a minimum so it is getting constant new water, but not serious flow that might encourage it to climb out of the PVC. After just a day or two in the tank, I'd pull the PVC end cap and RFA out of the deli cup or glass bowl and set it halfway into the sand so it won't move (the PVC end cap shouldn't float). After a week or two I'll push the end cap down in the sand so the top rim is about even with the surface of the sand. Most of my PVC end caps have ended up filling with sand, but the RFA doesn't move. In fact, I think it's very happy yo be attached to the cup and have sand around it's stem (or trunk, or neck... or whatever we call that?). I see lots and lots of RFA's in the wild that are attached to holes in rocks that are below the surface of the sand by anywhere form a small amount to as much as 3 or 4 inches.

I hope that answers your question? If not, please ask again and I try to do better with an answer! ;Happy

 

[Ron Reefman]

Ron, have you ever been to Donavons Reef lfs in Florida. That's DREEF on Ebay. Colors look a little too bright so pics might have been worked on. Still look good though. AquaSD has some nice ones also. I'm holding off until I see something that blows me away.

So far I'm not impressed. This is the response I got to my request to see the RFA's in person.

"Hello Ron, sorry I am a private residence. I cherry pick these RFA out of hundred I pick the best rainbows and oddities."

So I asked if I picked out an anemone or two, could I get regular photos taken under white light? We'll see what he says. If he won't do it, I wouldn't even consider buying from him. VIP Reef in Miami collects RFA's as well and posts 'real' photos and you can go to the store and see them in person.

 

[mmw64]

I agree that both these sites are using photographic techniques that enhance the look of the RFA's they have online. Any time you see a photo with great colors, very little of no white in the photo (what you think should be white is a soft blueish color) and a black background, be skeptical... VERY skeptical! I was at MACNA a few years ago and a professional underwater photographer had a booth there. A vendor was selling RFA's and the photographer showed me how he can take a VERY blue only light and use a special yellow filter and make the RFA's look just like these photos. The problem is that it's TOO much color and there is no white. The white in the anemone is turned pale blue. So I don't trust any of these photos.

Ask the seller of a WYSIWYG RFA to send you a photo under normal white light and it will look incredibly different! I did this with Cultured Reef in Maine and Holly, the owner, sent me all the photos I wanted. So good, honest vendors can do it. If they won't, I wouldn't buy from them.

I did send an email to DREEF and explained I'm looking for ultra high end RFA's and I'm willing to pay for them. But I don't trust the photos. Since I live in SW Florida it's wouldn't be a big deal for me to drive to their facility so I could see them in person. When I get an answer I'll post it in this thread!




I assume what you are asking about is when I put a PVC end cap in a deli cup and place a RFA in the end cap. Right? OK, I don't put the deli cup back in the aquarium, at least not for 2 to 4 days. I leave the deli cup sitting beside the aquarium. Every morning and every evening I dump the water from the deli cup down the sink and refill it from the aquarium. This is more than enough to keep them happy and 95% of the time the RFA will settle into the PVC end cap.

Now I may, after the RFA is settled in, put the entire deli cup/PVC end cap/RFA in the aquarium. If you have an issue with this being too light, so it floats or is easily moved around in the tank, I'd just add some weight to the cup. Maybe add a couple of very small rocks to the cup? Or rather than use a deli cup in the first place, use a small glass bowl. All I'm trying to do is keep the water movement around the RFA in the end cap down to a minimum so it is getting constant new water, but not serious flow that might encourage it to climb out of the PVC. After just a day or two in the tank, I'd pull the PVC end cap and RFA out of the deli cup or glass bowl and set it halfway into the sand so it won't move (the PVC end cap shouldn't float). After a week or two I'll push the end cap down in the sand so the top rim is about even with the surface of the sand. Most of my PVC end caps have ended up filling with sand, but the RFA doesn't move. In fact, I think it's very happy yo be attached to the cup and have sand around it's stem (or trunk, or neck... or whatever we call that?). I see lots and lots of RFA's in the wild that are attached to holes in rocks that are below the surface of the sand by anywhere form a small amount to as much as 3 or 4 inches.

I hope that answers your question? If not, please ask again and I try to do better with an answer! ;Happy

Very detailed answer. Thank you so much. I plan to try this method after summer travels are over.

I agree that both these sites are using photographic techniques that enhance the look of the RFA's they have online. Any time you see a photo with great colors, very little of no white in the photo (what you think should be white is a soft blueish color) and a black background, be skeptical... VERY skeptical! I was at MACNA a few years ago and a professional underwater photographer had a booth there. A vendor was selling RFA's and the photographer showed me how he can take a VERY blue only light and use a special yellow filter and make the RFA's look just like these photos. The problem is that it's TOO much color and there is no white. The white in the anemone is turned pale blue. So I don't trust any of these photos.

Ask the seller of a WYSIWYG RFA to send you a photo under normal white light and it will look incredibly different! I did this with Cultured Reef in Maine and Holly, the owner, sent me all the photos I wanted. So good, honest vendors can do it. If they won't, I wouldn't buy from them.

I did send an email to DREEF and explained I'm looking for ultra high end RFA's and I'm willing to pay for them. But I don't trust the photos. Since I live in SW Florida it's wouldn't be a big deal for me to drive to their facility so I could see them in person. When I get an answer I'll post it in this thread!




I assume what you are asking about is when I put a PVC end cap in a deli cup and place a RFA in the end cap. Right? OK, I don't put the deli cup back in the aquarium, at least not for 2 to 4 days. I leave the deli cup sitting beside the aquarium. Every morning and every evening I dump the water from the deli cup down the sink and refill it from the aquarium. This is more than enough to keep them happy and 95% of the time the RFA will settle into the PVC end cap.

Now I may, after the RFA is settled in, put the entire deli cup/PVC end cap/RFA in the aquarium. If you have an issue with this being too light, so it floats or is easily moved around in the tank, I'd just add some weight to the cup. Maybe add a couple of very small rocks to the cup? Or rather than use a deli cup in the first place, use a small glass bowl. All I'm trying to do is keep the water movement around the RFA in the end cap down to a minimum so it is getting constant new water, but not serious flow that might encourage it to climb out of the PVC. After just a day or two in the tank, I'd pull the PVC end cap and RFA out of the deli cup or glass bowl and set it halfway into the sand so it won't move (the PVC end cap shouldn't float). After a week or two I'll push the end cap down in the sand so the top rim is about even with the surface of the sand. Most of my PVC end caps have ended up filling with sand, but the RFA doesn't move. In fact, I think it's very happy yo be attached to the cup and have sand around it's stem (or trunk, or neck... or whatever we call that?). I see lots and lots of RFA's in the wild that are attached to holes in rocks that are below the surface of the sand by anywhere form a small amount to as much as 3 or 4 inches.

I hope that answers your question? If not, please ask again and I try to do better with an answer! ;Happy

 

[Ron Reefman]

So far I'm not impressed. This is the response I got to my request to see the RFA's in person.

"Hello Ron, sorry I am a private residence. I cherry pick these RFA out of hundred I pick the best rainbows and oddities."

So I asked if I picked out an anemone or two, could I get regular photos taken under white light? We'll see what he says. If he won't do it, I wouldn't even consider buying from him. VIP Reef in Miami collects RFA's as well and posts 'real' photos and you can go to the store and see them in person.

I'm a bit surprised. He got back to me already and said that if I picked out a couple RFA's that I'm interested in, he would email me photos taken with white light.

Good for him! Maybe I'll try him for one if I find one I like.

 

[Aaron-A2]

@Ron Reefman - First, I just finished reading the entire thread and I'm grateful for all the information you've provided! Second, I'm in the process of setting up a 90g clown harem nem tank and was wondering what your QT/acclimation process is for your RFA's?

 

[Ron Reefman]

@Ron Reefman - First, I just finished reading the entire thread and I'm grateful for all the information you've provided! Second, I'm in the process of setting up a 90g clown harem nem tank and was wondering what your QT/acclimation process is for your RFA's?

Thank you for letting me know this info has been of some help. I do appreciate it.

Best of luck with the clown harem tank, it's a very interesting idea. And as a long time fan of Star Trek, I chuckled at the "Borg" Cube reference.

As for quarantine and acclimation, I keep it very simple. Whether brought home from the wild or purchased, I treat them the same. Only a very short quarantine for a close visual inspection and a chance to acclimate to the temperature in our house (house and aquariums run in the 78 to 81 range). I think that RFA's are among the most hearty aquarium critters that I have dealt with. Even the tiniest baby RFA's seem to tolerate water parameter changes easily. I recently left an 8 ounce container of aquarium water with some purple macroalgae that had 2 very small baby RFA's attached to it on a windowsill. It was a west facing window and sat in the sun all afternoon and up until noon the next day and both anemones did just fine! BTW, it's not a normal practice of mine, but I got a mild case of food poisoning and was rather ill for about a day and forgot it was there!

 

[Aaron-A2]

Thank you for letting me know this info has been of some help. I do appreciate it.

Best of luck with the clown harem tank, it's a very interesting idea. And as a long time fan of Star Trek, I chuckled at the "Borg" Cube reference.

As for quarantine and acclimation, I keep it very simple. Whether brought home from the wild or purchased, I treat them the same. Only a very short quarantine for a close visual inspection and a chance to acclimate to the temperature in our house (house and aquariums run in the 78 to 81 range). I think that RFA's are among the most hearty aquarium critters that I have dealt with. Even the tiniest baby RFA's seem to tolerate water parameter changes easily. I recently left an 8 ounce container of aquarium water with some purple macroalgae that had 2 very small baby RFA's attached to it on a windowsill. It was a west facing window and sat in the sun all afternoon and up until noon the next day and both anemones did just fine! BTW, it's not a normal practice of mine, but I got a mild case of food poisoning and was rather ill for about a day and forgot it was there!

Haha yes! Star Trek is bae

Thanks for the details. I'm actually curious. I've had a marine pure block (the larger one) sitting in my mature 250g (Acro dominant) sump for about 2 months. I added that to my 90g cube and it cycled in 1 day. What are your thoughts about introducing a RFA within a month considering those circumstances?

 

[Ron Reefman]

You used some (30g) of water from an established tank and moved the marine pure block so the tank cycled quickly. IMHO the RFA would do just fine as far as survival goes. The one concern I would have is those down the road algae blooms could be a bit of an issue. But it shouldn't be too bad. When I started my 120g & 40g tanks together I had livestock out of a well established 180g & 75g hexagon that I had to place in the new tanks right away. Now I had lots and lots of very live rock, so like you, my tanks cycled very quickly. And although I did have some issues with an eventual diatom bloom, it wasn't enough to harm any of the coral or anemones.

I considered doing a 3 days of 'lights out' to get rid of the diatoms as they did get pretty bad. But I opted for 7 days of blue lights only instead. The corals & anemones stay happy while the diatoms went away. Of course that was just a temporary fix and the diatoms came back a couple of weeks later! I ended up doing 3 sessions of blue lights only for 7 too 10 days before they exhausted their food supply and things stabilized.

 

[tankstudy]

@Ron Reefman Second, I'm in the process of setting up a 90g clown harem nem tank and was wondering what your QT/acclimation process is for your RFA's?

Like Ron has stated, they are very hardy.

I don't really do much for acclimation, when I use to have to buy them, I'd throw it on some dry surface and let it expel all the water in itself before throwing it in the tank.

For QT, the number one thing you have to look for on a RFAs, are spiders. You will most likely spot them at night, they are nocturnal feeders. They will cause your RFA to buckle up wherever it's being drained from. A RFA that moves constantly and buckles up constantly, especially during the daylight hours, is a good indicator that it maybe infested. It is trying to get away from the spiders.

If you ever spot a spider, you can toss everything related to it or attempt to treat. Make sure to wash your hands if you find one, no.... scorch them before coming near your tank again. A lot of current treatments aren't very effective or are too effective but dangerous to every other organism. Either path you choose is an extreme headache.

 

[tankstudy]

And although I did have some issues with an eventual diatom bloom, it wasn't enough to harm any of the coral or anemones.

View attachment 20170123_193408.jpg

I agree that they do just fine. This is how my tank looked for many months.

 

[Aaron-A2]

@Ron Reefman @tankstudy - Thanks for your feedback. A question for both of you... While I used a well cycled marine pure block + old tank water (though I doubt that did much), what about the same question in regards to BTA's? I know the rule of thumb here on R2R is 6 months, but that implies it's a new tank. While mine is new, does the marine pure block effect that time? Do you have any litmus tests for when you think your tank is ready for a BTA?

 

[Ron Reefman]

I've had my share of RBTA as well. I have a couple that are clones (kids) from one that would only grow to about the size of golf ball or slightly bigger and then split. When I sold off livestock from my 120g tank I ended up selling over 25 RBTA's. The 2 I kept were really tiny and are growing as expected.

I don't think they are as hearty as rock flowers. But they aren't that fragile either. If I were doing what you are trying, I'd add a couple of RFA's first. Assuming they do well, add some RBTA's and wait until they show signs of long term health (a couple of months) and then add whatever you want. I just think the diatom or algae bloom that may happen as the tank goes from cycled to mature is harder on a RBTA than on a RFA.

Just realize this just my personal opinions and based on my experience. And you have to understand, I do a lot of things some other reefers don't do or would even say don't do. But then 6 months ago I had 4 very healthy tanks and even some unusual animals in those tanks. But after 15 year in the hobby and with my wife and I retiring (to do more fun stuff) and my getting more involved in auto-x, I just needed to downsize. Snorkeling and keeping a marine aquarium will be part of my life as long as I'm healthy enough to do it... so probably another 15 years?

 

[tankstudy]

If you guys are still hunting RFAs, WWC has one that is zebra pink with pink laced frills. The combination of pink disc w/ pink frills isn't very common. This is actually a first for me. I was actually trying to breed one like this out.

This piece would be a phenomenal piece for breeding. Mixing it with a rainbow could produce some insane offspring.

I'm very very very tempted to buy it myself, especially at it's current listed price...

 

[wowkingjames]

Ron will the rock flower survive an invasion of zoas. I have one that's about to happen.....

 

[Aaron-A2]

If you guys are still hunting RFAs, WWC has one that is zebra pink with pink laced frills. The combination of pink disc w/ pink frills isn't very common. This is actually a first for me. I was actually trying to breed one like this out.

This piece would be a phenomenal piece for breeding. Mixing it with a rainbow could produce some insane offspring.

I'm very very very tempted to buy it myself, especially at it's current listed price...

It's hard to tell from the picture, but how large are WWC's RFA's usually? With a black background and no egg crate, I have no point of reference outside the size of the mouth lol.

 

[tankstudy]

It's hard to tell from the picture, but how large are WWC's RFA's usually? With a black background and no egg crate, I have no point of reference outside the size of the mouth lol.

It appears that the ones they are selling as "large" are 3.5" in diameter.

I haven't purchased RFA's from them before so I couldn't give you a rough size estimate of the smaller ones.

It would be best to contact them for the exact size.

 

[ReeferBean]

Great info @Ron Reefman @tankstudy

 

[Jet915]

Witnessed my first spawning today around 9 pm with my actinics on. Only saw one rfa releasing sperm so I shut off my pumps and sucked the sperm into the turkey baster and released them into my other rfas (no idea which are females). Hopefully ill get some more babies in a couple months....