Royal Exclusiv/ Vertex Skimmers

[KJAG]

Is it true Royal Exclusiv( Bubble King Mfr) no longer manufacturers Vertex Skimmers and the production has been outsourced to China?

I read this recently and couldn’t help but notice that particular selling point has disappeared from Bulk Reef’s website on this line of skimmer.

 

[Potatohead]

I’m sure the Omegas are made overseas but the Alphas are certainly priced like RE makes them.

 

[shred5]

I think it is in a BRS video that they moved production to China and use the sicce pumps which are made in Italy I believe. Not sure it is the whole line though.

 

[KJAG]

I’m sure the Omegas are made overseas but the Alphas are certainly priced like RE makes them.

Indeed, and yet, the Alphas were also included in the RE name dropping , and all traces of that lineage have vanished from Bulk Reef’s product info/ videos. The price point hasn’t changed. At face value seems like a “quietly, slowly back away” cost saving strategy (if true) while keeping the price tag the same and hoping nobody noticed. To be clear, Im sure they’re still great skimmers but “German engineering” has become a positive stereotype for a reason, and this was a massive focal point of their marketing. Case in point I’ve owned a Deltec, and this was largely influential on my decision to buy. Was literally just about to buy an Alpha 250 tonight and then came upon this. Just trying to verify.

 

[KJAG]

I think it is in a BRS video that they moved production to China and use the sicce pumps which are made in Italy I believe. Not sure it is the whole line though.

Pretty sure they’re still using Red Dragon pumps in this line, which I confess I’m not aware or was as concerned of their origin of manufacturing,(since those pumps have a solid rep.) In light of this revelation, was more concerned with the quality of the acrylic, build quality, consistency, etc etc.

 

[Potatohead]

If you want to spend that much why not just go straight to BK?

 

[KJAG]

If you want to spend that much why not just go straight to BK?

Yeah I probably will, (if true) was planning on calling Scott at aquarium specialty on Monday. That’s secondary to the nature of the post though however. Prior to this revelation you had essentially the same product, produced in the same factory, being branded with a different label. I was just looking for insight on whether others could actually verify if this was the case before pulling the trigger.

 

[gcarroll]

Indeed, and yet, the Alphas were also included in the RE name dropping , and all traces of that lineage have vanished from Bulk Reef’s product info/ videos. The price point hasn’t changed. At face value seems like a “quietly, slowly back away” cost saving strategy (if true) while keeping the price tag the same and hoping nobody noticed. To be clear, Im sure they’re still great skimmers but “German engineering” has become a positive stereotype for a reason, and this was a massive focal point of their marketing. Case in point I’ve owned a Deltec, and this was largely influential on my decision to buy. Was literally just about to buy an Alpha 250 tonight and then came upon this. Just trying to verify.

Interesting comparison of the 2 companies. I love "German engineering" but you must be mindful that only one company is actually run by an engineer. At one time the two companies had a very close relationship and that had deteriorated (several years ago). the Askoll motors for the pumps are darn near the same if not the same. I know the Omegas are made in China and Alphas were still made in Germany as of last year when I asked, however Vertex owns their own Factory in China so that may have changed. I don't recall ever seeing much talk about poor build quality from any Skimmer from Vertex whether that be Alpha, Omega, or Somatic. And that is impressive as I am willing to bet there are a whole lot more Vertex skimmers on the market than BK.

 

[KJAG]

Interesting comparison of the 2 companies. I love "German engineering" but you must be mindful that only one company is actually run by an engineer. At one time the two companies had a very close relationship and that had deteriorated (several years ago). the Askoll motors for the pumps are darn near the same if not the same. I know the Omegas are made in China and Alphas were still made in Germany as of last year when I asked, however Vertex owns their own Factory in China so that may have changed. I don't recall ever seeing much talk about poor build quality from any Skimmer from Vertex whether that be Alpha, Omega, or Somatic. And that is impressive as I am willing to bet there are a whole lot more Vertex skimmers on the market than BK.

Yeah this does seem be old news after researching it further. And as I mentioned, I’m sure the Vertex line is legit. But so much more goes into a skimmer than just the pump. Still, the Vertex line is still pricey and and for me personally, if I’m spending over a grand on a piece of equipment I’d rather it be backed by RE’s rep. Ended up going with a Bubbleking Supermarin w RD3.

 

[VertexSupport]

(bit of a movie nerd, so excuse the Aliens3 meme). Our relationship with RE who previously produced the Alpha line of skimmers for us was dissolved many years ago, production of the Alpha series skimmers was done at our facilities in Cologne Germany, until recently when we moved it to the USA (where the same German engineering will be augmented by good ole USA pride of workmanship). The pumps on the Alpha series skimmers is an Askoll 1500 motor block the same as the "Red Dragon" pumps that RE brands themselves. RE used our molds to make the skimmers for us, which we own and use to this day. Today's Alpha series skimmers are the same (or better) quality that they have always been and will continue to be.

 

[gcarroll]

(bit of a movie nerd, so excuse the Aliens3 meme). Our relationship with RE who previously produced the Alpha line of skimmers for us was dissolved many years ago, production of the Alpha series skimmers was done at our facilities in Cologne Germany, until recently when we moved it to the USA (where the same German engineering will be augmented by good ole USA pride of workmanship). The pumps on the Alpha series skimmers is an Askoll 1500 motor block the same as the "Red Dragon" pumps that RE brands themselves. RE used our molds to make the skimmers for us, which we own and use to this day. Today's Alpha series skimmers are the same (or better) quality that they have always been and will continue to be.

Thanks for that explanation. Great to hear that production has moved to the USA! When I recently saw a Gen 1 Alpha next to a current Alpha, I was shocked how much thicker the materials seemed in comparison.

 

[KJAG]

(bit of a movie nerd, so excuse the Aliens3 meme). Our relationship with RE who previously produced the Alpha line of skimmers for us was dissolved many years ago, production of the Alpha series skimmers was done at our facilities in Cologne Germany, until recently when we moved it to the USA (where the same German engineering will be augmented by good ole USA pride of workmanship). The pumps on the Alpha series skimmers is an Askoll 1500 motor block the same as the "Red Dragon" pumps that RE brands themselves. RE used our molds to make the skimmers for us, which we own and use to this day. Today's Alpha series skimmers are the same (or better) quality that they have always been and will continue to be.

Just saw this. Perfect! Glad you're here.

Your meme would suggest that such a rumor is totally bogus.(Which, even if true, as I mentioned doesn't mean your product wasn't/isnt high quality, but was a dealbreaker for me personally)
If so, then thanks for setting the record straight. But for the record, since you're dispelling rumors, was there ever a point where you were having parts manufactured in China? Or did you move straight from Cologne to the US? (That's great to hear by the way as I'm a huge fan of keeping American manufacturing here in the states)

Do you offer controllable/selectable wattage DC pumps like Bubble Kings RD3?

Is the acrylic on all of your skimmers the same thickness across the board or do you offer thicker/sturdier models contrasted with other models in your line (Example the BK Deluxe and Supermarin are made of heavier, thicker materials)

I just bought a Bubbleking Supermarin 200, but still have a 52 gallon build coming in the next six months or so, so these answers would be good to know.

 

[VertexSupport]

Just saw this. Perfect! Glad you're here.

Your meme would suggest that such a rumor is totally bogus.(Which, even if true, as I mentioned doesn't mean your product wasn't/isnt high quality, but was a dealbreaker for me personally)
If so, then thanks for setting the record straight. But for the record, since you're dispelling rumors, was there ever a point where you were having parts manufactured in China? Or did you move straight from Cologne to the US? (That's great to hear by the way as I'm a huge fan of keeping American manufacturing here in the states)

Do you offer controllable/selectable wattage DC pumps like Bubble Kings RD3?

Is the acrylic on all of your skimmers the same thickness across the board or do you offer thicker/sturdier models contrasted with other models in your line (Example the BK Deluxe and Supermarin are made of heavier, thicker materials)

I just bought a Bubbleking Supermarin 200, but still have a 52 gallon build coming in the next six months or so, so these answers would be good to know.

Our Omega line of skimmers as well as most of our products are produced in China at the Facility we own and we are 100% in control of quality of workmanship and materials. We have consistently kept the thickness of our skimmer bodies (as well as other acrylic and poly carbonate bodied products) consistent or increased the thickness, while other manufacturers have reduced this to cut costs. The Alpha series skimmers have always been produced in Germany and now in the process of moving this to the USA. We do not currently produce a DC pump (maybe soon? I cannot confirm at this time) All of our skimmers are of a higher than industry standard for thickness, and we do not offer them in differing thickness to maintain our standard of sturdiness and durability.

 

[shred5]

(bit of a movie nerd, so excuse the Aliens3 meme). Our relationship with RE who previously produced the Alpha line of skimmers for us was dissolved many years ago, production of the Alpha series skimmers was done at our facilities in Cologne Germany, until recently when we moved it to the USA (where the same German engineering will be augmented by good ole USA pride of workmanship). The pumps on the Alpha series skimmers is an Askoll 1500 motor block the same as the "Red Dragon" pumps that RE brands themselves. RE used our molds to make the skimmers for us, which we own and use to this day. Today's Alpha series skimmers are the same (or better) quality that they have always been and will continue to be.

Thanks for chiming in.. That actually makes me want to buy one. Love things made in America even though no issues with German either but not a fan of stuff made in China in most cases. Also like they are made with the Askoll motor block still... With the Alpha line not needing to be shipped now shouldn't the line be cheaper now .

 

[gcarroll]

Thanks for chiming in.. That actually makes me want to buy one. Love things made in America even though no issues with German either but not a fan of stuff made in China in most cases. Also like they are made with the Askoll motor block still... With the Alpha line not needing to be shipped now shouldn't the line be cheaper now .

Things made in China isn't so much of a problem if strict quality controls are in place. As you see, Vertex isn't having products made for them in China by an OEM. They own and operate their own factory which is very different. This is why you cannot buy Vertex clones on Alibaba. Many companies go to China and bid the job out to the lowest bidder. Those OEM factories often times try to cut things out like quality control in order to increase their margin.

Lets not forget the Omega 200 also uses the Askoll motorblock. If you get a chance to see one in person, I am sure you will be impressed! Despite it being made by Vertex employees that just happen to reside in China.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Have both Vertex and RE skimmers. While they have different pumps , to me there is no noticeable difference in performance. In fact some times I forget which one I'm working with other than the removal of the waste container which is much easier on the RE than the Vertex.

 

[shred5]

Things made in China isn't so much of a problem if strict quality controls are in place. As you see, Vertex isn't having products made for them in China by an OEM. They own and operate their own factory which is very different. This is why you cannot buy Vertex clones on Alibaba. Many companies go to China and bid the job out to the lowest bidder. Those OEM factories often times try to cut things out like quality control in order to increase their margin.

Lets not forget the Omega 200 also uses the Askoll motorblock. If you get a chance to see one in person, I am sure you will be impressed! Despite it being made by Vertex employees that just happen to reside in China.

I know how it works... They kind of said above too but good info for those who do not know.

A friend back in the day designed a replacement flyback transformers for Nintendo monitors since obviously they have not been made in years. He paid for all the tooling stetup and stuff. They ended up on Ebay for half what he could sell them for since he did the design and paid for the tooling. Basically one for you and one for me. They crushed innovation since he decided never to do it again. Do I buy Chinese stuff, sure but I still do not like buying from a country that allows piracy period.
I avoid if at all possible. Not everything bad comes out of China either.

 

[KJAG]

So just a recap. The relationship with Royal Exclusiv(including the Alpha line) was “dissolved” “many” years ago,” but you “recently” moved Alpha production to the US from Germany, even though the line “have always been produced in Germany until the (recent) “ process of moving” this to the USA, despite that relationship being “dissolved” many years ago.

 

[gcarroll]

So just a recap. The relationship with Royal Exclusiv(including the Alpha line) was “dissolved” “many” years ago,” but you “recently” moved Alpha production to the US from Germany, even though the line “have always been produced in Germany until the (recent) “ process of moving” this to the USA, despite that relationship being “dissolved” many years ago.

Not 100% sure where you are going with this but to clear it up further, you summary has been edited.

So just a recap. The relationship with Royal Exclusiv(who was the OEM builder of "ONLY" the first generation Alpha series) was “dissolved” “many” years ago,” but you “recently” moved Alpha production to the US from Germany, even though the line “have always been produced in Germany by Royal Exclusiv in the first generation and by Vertex after the dissolution until the (recent) “ process of moving” this to the USA (just as they have moved all distribution to USA), despite that relationship being “dissolved” many years ago.

 

[shred5]

Not 100% sure where you are going with this but to clear it up further, you summary has been edited.

So just a recap. The relationship with Royal Exclusiv(who was the OEM builder of "ONLY" the first generation Alpha series) was “dissolved” “many” years ago,” but you “recently” moved Alpha production to the US from Germany, even though the line “have always been produced in Germany by Royal Exclusiv in the first generation and by Vertex after the dissolution until the (recent) “ process of moving” this to the USA (just as they have moved all distribution to USA), despite that relationship being “dissolved” many years ago.

I think what he is trying to say is they contradicted themselves in each reply. First says production has moved to the USA and second it says it is moving to the USA.