RTN/STN help....

[Gatorpa]

Thanks for the info!

That pH part, at least, is easy to understand as all reports that I could find on the internet (each individualyl of little expected chemistry reliability) report that witchhazel has a pH between 3 and 5.5.

I think it is more the effect of slowing metabolism. I dosed 20ml in a system with 100gallons so I think the low pH of the witchhazel isn’t affecting the system due to massive dilution.

From what I read the distillation process makes it like dosing vodka which is why Im guessing it lowered NO3 and PO4. Mind you I typically run some GfO to keep the PO4 in line but I removed it and carbon per the instructions.
Below is my pH graph. You can easily see when the treatment stopped. All other factors stayed constant with respect to Kalk dosing and in home CO2 concentration.

Just wanted to post some of my observations for those considering doing the treatment.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think it is more the effect of slowing metabolism. I dosed 20ml in a system with 100gallons so I think the low pH of the witchhazel isn’t affecting the system due to massive dilution.

From what I read the distillation process makes it like dosing vodka which is why Im guessing it lowered NO3 and PO4. Mind you I typically run some GfO to keep the PO4 in line but I removed it and carbon per the instructions.
Below is my pH graph. You can easily see when the treatment stopped. All other factors stayed constant with respect to Kalk dosing and in home CO2 concentration.

Just wanted to post some of my observations for those considering doing the treatment.

When you say slowing metabolism lowers pH, presumably to mean reducing photosynthesis? If it did that, I'd be pretty wary of using it.

 

[jmichaelh7]

This post was not helpful ?

did you get your issue resolved ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This post was not helpful ?

did you get your issue resolved ?

What post are you referring to?

 

[saltyfins]

When you say slowing metabolism lowers pH, presumably to mean reducing photosynthesis? If it did that, I'd be pretty wary of using it.

my PH dropped to 7.9 at it's lowest. that is not a concern. Nothing else has changed, minus alk consumption slowed. Now that I am finished, I saved 1 small frag, and a colony. No more spread. so I am happy. the only thing I did notice, is that the other corals actually puffed up and looked even better.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

my PH dropped to 7.9 at it's lowest. that is not a concern. Nothing else has changed, minus alk consumption slowed. Now that I am finished, I saved 1 small frag, and a colony. No more spread. so I am happy. the only thing I did notice, is that the other corals actually puffed up and looked even better.

Good to hear. Various organisms may have enjoyed consuming the organics in it (including the ethanol, which is about 14% of the composition) or enjoyed consuming the the bacteria that in turn consumed the organics.

Witch Hazel (USP) Specification - American Distilling

The term Witch Hazel is considered a “standard of identity” as defined by the FDA in the USP. “Witch Hazel USP” must be a fully distilled product prepared through a specific closed distillation process and contain 86% witch hazel distillate from the bark and twigs of Hamamelis virginiana Linné...

www.americandistilling.com

 

[Gatorpa]

When you say slowing metabolism lowers pH, presumably to mean reducing photosynthesis? If it did that, I'd be pretty wary of using it.

Yeah that’s what I mean.

Doesn’t stop it just seems to cut it back, I say this as alk and Ca demand seemed to drop with pH in similar proportions .

pH still rose with photoperiod just not to similar levels. Seemed a but blunted.

Corals looked fine with no appreciable changes noted.

Biodigest was also used which perhaps made some impact as well

 

[Futuretotm]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Can you chemically explain how witch hazel would reduce no3/po4 per OP experience?

going to start this mystery treatment myself as well for my STN

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Can you chemically explain how witch hazel would reduce no3/po4 per OP experience?

going to start this mystery treatment myself as well for my STN

Which post specifically do you see that mentioned in?

Witch Hazel is known to inhibit certain pathogenic bacteria when used at high enough concentration (not talking reef here, but direct on skin, for example ). Whether it actually attains a useful concentration in a reef tank is not clear to me,

it also contains a lot of ethanol and other organics that may spur the growth of some types of bacteria and other organisms, and those will consume N and P.

 

[Futuretotm]

Having just done the RMS witch hazel treatment I can offer some observations that may be of help to those considering it.

Back ground:
Off and on STN of about 10% of my colonies in a 150 SPS dominant tank.
Alk runs 8.5-8.9
Ca 425
Mg 1400

NO3 15
PO4 0.10-0.15
The nutrients are checked with a hanna.
pH typically runs 7.95 on low end,
tops out at 8.30ish on high household CO2 dependent.

Did a 10 day TX used the bio digest in the am
Witchhazel at night when lights were off
Did the double first dose.

Observations: pH dropped between .10-.15 on both ends see photo, easy to see when treatment ended.
NO3 dropped to 5 a week in
PO4 dropped to 0

STN appears to have been halted as no new areas are affected and no new colonies affected.

Interesting is that frags of affected colonies seem unaffected by the STN(less likely a nutrient issue IMHO).

Take away watch the nutrients and pH and expect them to drop.

Exactly the same results I have seen. My P04 dropped also, from .20 to 0.08 which is good. I am doing a 14 day tx, and have lost initial colonies. I did manage to save a small piece, so that's good! also, another colony that had what I suspect is RTN/STN...has halted. no ill effects on anything, infact corals look better than before tx!
No issues with CUC either.

both of these posts by two different people state the same “that their nutrients went down” when witch hazel was dosed??? @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[saltyfins]

both of these posts by two different people state the same “that their nutrients went down” when witch hazel was dosed??? @Randy Holmes-Farley

yes. but your also supposed to add bacteria, which will really make them go down

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The first post is also adding Biodigest, in addition to the witch Hazel.

 

[saltyfins]

The first post is also adding Biodigest, in addition to the witch Hazel.

you can also use MB7. I over dosed the BioDigest, for several days

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

you can also use MB7. I over dosed the BioDigest, for several days

I was just explaining why it is not useful to try to explain why witchhazel is having a specific effect when, in fact, other thigns are being added too that also may have that effect.