Sand bed vacuuming

[brandon429]

I've seen over time that of the 100 people reading this thread at once, 82 have an aged sandbed not harming the tank, largely undisturbed, and it sounds cra to rinse these since they aren't harming. They might be 13 years running, no harm.

My offer sounds like I'm questioning their approach...not the case. Leave those beds in place and they may run 13 more years just fine. But the science of safe bed access is still legit to know and employ, as some have no choice: Home movers. Tank upgraders. Bare bottom goers, bed rinsers, partial rinsers, cyano invaded tanks, nitrate leaky systems, we just like to have cleaning options.



When we see often the advice never to rinse a sandbed, that's leaving out critical variables which change among tanks (grain size, particulate penetration variances, varying input rates among tank keepers) and this is why thousands of aquarists set up deep sand beds that went foul in under 20 months and gave measurable problems to the tank while others get 13 years at five inches deep.

Setup consistently and input variables controlled, I'm sure more sandbeds could run hands-off with less problems...

we had all the 90s to sell sandbeds to each other--completely stored up ones that could possibly kill the whole tank if disturbed are not considered the ideal way as they once were, but if someone's old dsb is working fine why change... out of sight out of mind.


For people who need access, this is attainable with no loss

 

[FranklinDattein]

I siphoned my shallow sand bed(SSB) on every water change, a painful but necessary task for SSB.
That is why I went bare bottom. Controller just puts the wave makers in full speed, two hours a day and there is no need to siphon.

Never touched my tanks with deep sand bed (DSB).

A wet vacuum is the best tool I've ever used for siphoning. Holds 20l and costs $60-$120 bucks

 

[AC.Reef.801]

I have a smaller sized tank, 24 gal, and I have noticed a big difference in my nitrates as well as the overall quality of my tank with vacuuming out my sand bed. I used to not do it as much and I seen a rise in nitrates as well as detritus and green algae build up. I didn't like doing it because it would stir up my sand and blow it over all my corals and rock. But after my tank started having problems i did a heavy cleaning throughout my sand bed I've noticed a lot less nitrate level as well as my tank is cleaner and my fish and corals are a lot less stressed out. So now every water change I try to vacuum any exposed sand and move my rocks and corals that are easy to move to get what's build up around them. I imagine it will be harder to do with a larger tank because of the surface area is larger so of I was you I would focus on different parts every time you vacuum as well as just stirring up the sanded in the other parts that you dont.

 

[brandon429]

What I just filmed would be considered reef tank assault cleaning. It was so harsh a smidgen of concern began to creep up and I hurried to finish.

All my corals sat on the counter in the air for 15+ mins until literally cold w be mad two days. It's to put my system on the line to show that bacteria are not lost critically in sand bed fixes, and that biosystems will look great after such a melee. Many of the really bad tank invasion threads would benefit from such a run although the frags in the air was unnecessary showmanship.

For people who never let a sandbed fill with waste because they partial siphon consistently, they don't have to do these rip cleans. Will post tomorrow need to blend in some stills etc

After one hour post refill, from washing the entire sandbed out with tap water and then saltwater, fanworms were back out, brittle stars all alive they hid in the rocks during the clean out. Feeder tentacles out on favids
Snapped this in full surprise dark flash pic via phone

I'd call the sandbed clean.

Some pods/worms were certainly rinsed from the sand but they'll seed back too, from the live rock. Am detritus free now, will repeat in six months. Sandbed still has filtration bacteria... rinsing does not sterilize. I choose to rinse and reset sandbeds due to size of system and accumulation rates. Others may choose to let them store.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Past couple of months I've had a spike in nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates been sitting around 0.5. Phosphates peaked at 0.9. I began vacuuming 2 weeks ago, after one year without vacuuming. I did one half side of the tank and tomorrow i'm doing the other half. Last nights tests read nitrates almost undetectable and phosphates at 0.5, after one week since last water change. I refuse to buy GFO, bio pellets or phosopure or anything of that nature.

I believe that vacuuming the sandbed is improving my tank 100%.

 

[brandon429]

it is important to know this new wave of sandbed cleaning is as heretical to the larger reefing community that setting up pico reefs were back in 2001

same public acceptance factor. about .02% heh on a ten year acceptance delay. everyone w be rinsing in 2026

 

[john.m.cole3]

@jsker

 

[john.m.cole3]

TUSI I know the thought of a full teardown could be a little overwhelming to say the least,but I did this before when I went bare bottom and if you should make the decision to do a full tear down and need a pair of helping hands and some extra brut buckets,heaters,power heads ect.
I'm available just let me know friend

that's what I'm talking about. Go Team Community Reef!

 

[john.m.cole3]

This same question has puzzled me. I heard yes you have to vaccum the sand bed but last summer I stopped in at Marineland in Florida and spoke to the head maintenance supervisor about this topic and he told me never mess with the sand bed. In his words, "why would you mess with the good bacteria you worked so hard to achieve". Needless to say, I have not touched my sand bed in almost a year and have had no problems. I do frequent water changes, use a lot of activated charcoal in my filters and have clams, sand shifter star fish and snails that clean the bed. "What is your thoughts".?

I believe that you will not destroy/remove the good bacteria when cleaning your sand bed. Do your powerheads remove the good bac when they blow on your rocks? Same concept. I even rinse my live sand in tap water, immediately place in tank, and return livestock to tank with no ill effects. Beneficial bacteria is tougher than we think!

 

[john.m.cole3]

Why would you rinse of brand new Caribsea live sand? I know dry sand yes but why don't you just put it in the tank and let it sets? Didn't take my 120 lbs of sand to settle and clear the water if you do it right

the point of rinsing is to remove silt from the sand so that you CAN vacuum it w/o creating a cloud. Otherwise, a non vacuumed bed will trap detritus and ultimately lead to sudden nutrient release once it is didturbed

 

[john.m.cole3]

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-of...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445


That will cover all bacteria questions


Cleaning time
I'm about to take apart my whole reef (ten yrs old) in the exact steps above and rinse my sb with tap water right now, 100% new clean run...change water is heating up to 78 as we speak.
Just quick pass tap, final rinse is sw and the sand remains viable filter, this does not sterilize. Everybody has tap water that pumps out live bacteria, in spite of chlor...and that's from the plant fed report...pipe scum and o ring pass by adds lots more bacteria to your cup of lemonade, search this out to see.


The CFU report from your local water supply annual reports shows the bacteria colony approximations coming to your tap
Translated into sandbed work, it means you have a dwell time such that five mins rinse harms nothing.

After parted out rinse I'll then put back together and skip cycle. The reef is tiny so this is easy, I do it 2-3 times a year so I can feed heavy



Altering the bac takes meds or desiccation not any rinsing we do or short air exposure.

The biology is the same regardless of tank size...just more work for large tankers and they have fish to isolate

Pics coming

I don't even put my corals in water they sit on the counter on a dinner plate. Live rock too, takes about 15 mins then they go back in.



**some people have remote refugiums or special setups where you don't rinse. If your sandbed is one of those, don't rinse lol

LOL, evrybody thinks you're crazy...!!! "What is that guy thinking, rinsing with tap water and leaving his corals and rock exposed to air?"

"I bet he thinks 100% water changes won't stress out his corals either"

hahahahaha the bacteria wins AGAIN! I like your style Brandon!

 

[jsker]

Past couple of months I've had a spike in nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates been sitting around 0.5. Phosphates peaked at 0.9. I began vacuuming 2 weeks ago, after one year without vacuuming. I did one half side of the tank and tomorrow i'm doing the other half. Last nights tests read nitrates almost undetectable and phosphates at 0.5, after one week since last water change. I refuse to buy GFO, bio pellets or phosopure or anything of that nature.
I believe that vacuuming the sandbed is improving my tank 100%.

Yes I am sold, I used to vacuum all the time in my other setups. as @brandon429 stated I think it is the trend not to vacuum right now. You even see @Paul B vacuuming once a year. I was trying to be new school and should have been old school with maintenance and the new work for maintenance is husbandry

 

[reeferfoxx]

Yes I am sold, I used to vacuum all the time in my other setups. as @brandon429 stated I think it is the trend not to vacuum right now. You even see @Paul B vacuuming once a year. I was trying to be new school and should have been old school with maintenance and the new work for maintenance is husbandry

Tell you what, the dark brown stuff that came out of my sand bed had such a bad smell. Literally smelled like sewege. I noticed last night, my shrimp and goby pair moved to the clean side. They haven't moved since i added them to the tank. I'm excited to clean the other half tonight.

 

[jsker]

Tell you what, the dark brown stuff that came out of my sand bed had such a bad smell. Literally smelled like sewege. I noticed last night, my shrimp and goby pair moved to the clean side. They haven't moved since i added them to the tank. I'm excited to clean the other half tonight.

getting my water ready now, and I should be vacuuming in a half hour

 

[brandon429]

While it's true that rinsing can carry away some bac (complexed with the whole waste we are removing) there are also nitrifying bacteria in the water, suspended, complexed with micro floating bits called floc which include non-filtration bacteria mixed in as well and all these bacteria get removed too with each portion exported. They are incidental... not a breakpoint for the system which is why tiny little reefs can both change 100% water -and- tap water rinse the bed all in the same pass and not recycle.

There's simply enough still stuck on things.

If sand grains were little polished metal spheres, slick and no surface area, then rinsing could remove lots more critical bacteria. But at 100x a caribsea sand grain looks all craggy with rough shod surfaces where clingers-on find permanent footing unless we medicate to kill.

Live rock is even worse due to holey surface area... you have to nuke it to make it sterile. Our surface areas are massive, we got more bac than we need, so down with detritus in 2016.

 

[brandon429]

I don't have video edited yet w do soon but here's pic blasting tap water into my vase for fifteen minutes straight while corals are on my counter in freezing temps (they were scary cold when I began putting them back in, had me .5% concerned each time)

I didn't want to use twenty gallons of salt for the rinse, so we did tap water then final rinse in SW then put tank back together. While rinsing in tap I put in peroxide too, the video shows. Double bac assault, both still do not sterilize

Peroxide doesn't sterilize due to surface area and insulating associations mentioned above, even combined with tap rinsing.

This is 24 hrs later reef is pristine new. No cycle. The pico will run super clean no cruddy growths for a long time now until next assault cleaning in August

 

[sawdonkey]

I keep a shallow sand bed, but I vacuum everything at least every two weeks. Between water changes, I just do it into a filter sock in the sump. During water changes, I vacuum the whole thing, but ask use an MJ1200 to blast everything out from under my rocks. It's amazing how much detritus I remove. I think it keeps my nitrates lower, but just as important to me, keeps my tank looking clean.

 

[Nano sapiens]

For what it's worth, having read and studied up on as much substrate related material that I can find here is my take on the 'why it works' aspect of sand bed detritus removal.

NO3 (nitrate): Removing detritus allows circulating water to penetrate the sand bed. Contrary to old popular beliefs, nitrification and denitrification do occur in shallow beds (aerobic bacteria where exposed to oxygenated water, anoxic bacteria embedded within the sand grains and therefore exposed to low-oxygenated water). This close association, termed 'coupling', is what facilitates efficient and complete nitrification and denitrification. If water can't effectively penetrate due to a clogged sand bed, this essential process becomes compromised...which typically leads to elevated nitrate levels.

Phosphate: As detritus and bacteria are removed from the system via detritus removal, so is stored/bound phosphate in it's various forms (including the one we can test for , PO4). Ignoring the obvious phosphate bound up in detritus material itself, and looking at just the bacteria, they will naturally try to reproduce to repopulate the newly available substrate real estate (due to the loss of some bacteria from the sand bed) and so phosphate is sequestered. The next cycle of detritus/bacteria removal removes this sequestered phosphate...and the cycle continues over and over helping to keep phosphate under control

I firmly believe that my 12g 'unfiltered' mixed reef would not be functioning at ~0.3 ppm NO3 (ELOS) and undetectable PO4 (Salifert) like it is after nearly 8 years without the regular removal of detritus (wherever it lurks).