Sand...maintenance of Sand

[pdiehm]

I know this is not going to be a right or wrong question.

Since I had to break the tank down due to Vermetid snails, I have been toying with adding sand back to the tank but this has also gotten me previously into trouble (was using Tropic Eden Reef Flakes).

This will ultimately be an SPS tank, but I am also thinking about having some corals on the floor (acans, brains, etc) but I don't know if I can add them on a barebottom.

A LFS recommends 1" sand, but also says don't touch it. A lot of good things occur in the sand to help keep the nutrients in check and if you siphon it, you are removing a lot of the good things that keep the nutrients in check. Other people say, you should stir it up or vacuum.

I know with a DSB, you do not touch, stirring that up would be disastrous to the tank, but if I would go back to sand, it'd be 1" at most, but then I could get dwarf ceriths, nassarius snails, some sand sifting stars, sifting gobies. Barebottom, that's out of the equation. Not to mention, sand will also add another place for beneficial bacteria.

But, Barebottom is so easy to control and keep clean.

I just found the LFS advice to add 1" of sand, and then never touch it interesting.

 

[CC13]

I know this is not going to be a right or wrong question.

Since I had to break the tank down due to Vermetid snails, I have been toying with adding sand back to the tank but this has also gotten me previously into trouble (was using Tropic Eden Reef Flakes).

This will ultimately be an SPS tank, but I am also thinking about having some corals on the floor (acans, brains, etc) but I don't know if I can add them on a barebottom.

A LFS recommends 1" sand, but also says don't touch it. A lot of good things occur in the sand to help keep the nutrients in check and if you siphon it, you are removing a lot of the good things that keep the nutrients in check. Other people say, you should stir it up or vacuum.

I know with a DSB, you do not touch, stirring that up would be disastrous to the tank, but if I would go back to sand, it'd be 1" at most, but then I could get dwarf ceriths, nassarius snails, some sand sifting stars, sifting gobies. Barebottom, that's out of the equation. Not to mention, sand will also add another place for beneficial bacteria.

But, Barebottom is so easy to control and keep clean.

I just found the LFS advice to add 1" of sand, and then never touch it interesting.

If you have a Diamond Goby or Nassarius Snails.... all they do is stir the sandbed all day long so not sure why the LFS would be saying that.

I am in the process of going bare bottom right now. I have found with a large tank its simply too hard to keep the sandbed clean.

 

[pdiehm]

If you have a Diamond Goby or Nassarius Snails.... all they do is stir the sandbed all day long so not sure why the LFS would be saying that.

I am in the process of going bare bottom right now. I have found with a large tank its simply too hard to keep the sandbed clean.

I think they are saying, I don't to stir it up or vacuum. by doing so, removes a significant portion of the good stuff. I didn't touch the sand the first time around and it was nothing short of a disaster (mind you I also had no clue what I was doing...and I still may not).

 

[CC13]

I think they are saying, I don't to stir it up or vacuum. by doing so, removes a significant portion of the good stuff. I didn't touch the sand the first time around and it was nothing short of a disaster (mind you I also had no clue what I was doing...and I still may not).

I can see that vacuuming the sand would most likely also suck up a decent amount of beneficial bacteria.... but imo leaving your sandbed alone will eventually lead to major problems.

 

[TheHarold]

Aint hard to maintain, mix it up and then do a water change. I use one of my powerbeads to do that- aim it at the sand and make sure everything gets stirred up.

3 years of happy SPS and low nutrients, with the sand bed clean as day 1

 

[reeferfoxx]

Sandbeds needs to establish it's live environment. Really it's an anerobic area where it helps produce nitrogen. Also, its home for pods and worms. I think the sandbed should be left alone for the first year. Then you can start vacuuming portions. Then any maintenance to the sandbed should be periodic.

 

[spartanman22]

I will stir the visible areas of my sandbed about 1x/week. Keeps the sand bed clean and white, and IMO prevents detritus and gunk from accumulating. I’ve done this for years in SPS dominant tanks.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I disagree with not vacuuming the sand. Unless you have a very large CUC that will eat all of the detritus, you are setting yourself up for problems. Vacuuming the sand will not remove beneficial bacteria, that bacteria adheres to the sand. Vacuuming will get rid of a lot of undesirable gunk that gets stuck in the sand.

You also have to consider the fact that you can't have as much flow with a sand bed as you can with a bare bottom tank. I'm not saying to skip the sand, it's just something to consider while planning your tank.

 

[Amps Reef Life]

I came here to say GO STARS!

I would go bare bottom in an SPS tank unless you like the look of sand. I only siphon a very small amount of the top of my sand when it's dirty. I have 2 inches in some places in my tank due to all the burrowing wrasse I keep. Nitrates are good in a SPS tank yes you want to keep them in check but you'll also want them around 5-10 for the growth of the sps.

 

[Amps Reef Life]

If you have a Diamond Goby or Nassarius Snails.... all they do is stir the sandbed all day long so not sure why the LFS would be saying that.

I am in the process of going bare bottom right now. I have found with a large tank its simply too hard to keep the sandbed clean.

I agree I have a 180-gallon tank and I have found the sand is a pain to keep clean compared to my smaller tanks in the past (85 and 100 gallons). It's a lot of weekly work to keep up with it.

 

[brandon429]

Sandbed threads that solely feature work done to correct sandbed issues show a unique angle

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

It's not about what an artist can do with a sandbed in his or her home. I'd expect dr Shimek to have had zero sandbed issues, ever.

It's what the masses can do with them, or can't do, that counts.

if sandbeds were neutral, easy going beasts working the way they do in the ocean, we'd have no need for a sandbed thread designed around the order of ops needed to not kill your tank when working with them.

 

[pdiehm]

i'm leaning towards bare bottom. As a coach, and a parent, I think keeping things simple is best. I just found it interesting as I had a large clean up crew, and my first attempt at a sandbed was nothing short of a disaster. When I removed it due to a constant cycle of dino's, cyano and hair algae (getting 1 solved, then the next would appear...just on going), the water was the darkest shade of brown you can imagine.

I went barebottom after a restart, but I still had nitrate/algael issues. When I removed the pukani rock, I understood why, the pukani was loaded with crud and stuff.

As for the flow, my MP40's run at a max of 60% (1 is 50% reefcrest, the opposite is 60% constant, and switches throughout the day). Is that enough to move sand? I do not know.

All that said, I'm thinking staying barebottom, but I was/am entertaining the sand idea to place some LPS on the lower portion of my tank, since I do not know if I can place them on the hard bottom.

 

[reeferfoxx]

When I removed it due to a constant cycle of dino's, cyano and hair algae (getting 1 solved, then the next would appear...just on going), the water was the darkest shade of brown you can imagine.

How did you maintain your sandbed before?

FYI, no sandbed doesn't mean no invasive algae.

 

[pdiehm]

How did you maintain your sandbed before?

FYI, no sandbed doesn't mean no invasive algae.

I know that. I would try to bring as much crud as I could with a siphon but the way my internal overflow is, I was unable to get to the back half of the tank.

Since my tank still has the internal overflow box coast to coast I am thinking KISS.

I am actually toying with getting another mp40 and putting it way back in the corner blowing across the back wall once I get the rock structure designed. “In Theory,” it should pile up in the back corner or push to the front of the tank.

In theory.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I know that. I would try to bring as much crud as I could with a siphon but the way my internal overflow is, I was unable to get to the back half of the tank.

Did you turkey baste the back part?

 

[pdiehm]

Did you turkey baste the back part?

couldn't really get a good enough angle due to the rock and where the internal overflow box was.

Sandbed threads that solely feature work done to correct sandbed issues show a unique angle

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

It's not about what an artist can do with a sandbed in his or her home. I'd expect dr Shimek to have had zero sandbed issues, ever.

It's what the masses can do with them, or can't do, that counts.

if sandbeds were neutral, easy going beasts working the way they do in the ocean, we'd have no need for a sandbed thread designed around the order of ops needed to not kill your tank when working with them.

I'm not sure I understand what that thread is about @brandon429.

 

[spsick]

I baste the heck out of a different portion of my sandbed and siphon crud every WC, being I do 5g a week a can’t do the whole sandbed in time.

Monthly I siphon out 5-10% of my sand and replace with new (thoroughly washed in RO) sand. Through the years I’ve found tanks always do better the first year and I believe this has something to do with the elements in the sand depleting and their capacity to absorb bad stuff. Can’t hurt and sand is cheap. Might not be as feasible on a 400g tank.

My current tank has done much better long term following this vs my old DSB method.

HTH

 

[reeferfoxx]

I think Brandon's approach is making the sandbed decorative and my approach is making the sandbed functional. In my perspective, I don't have time to mess with the sandbed, so leaving it alone is the right kind of lazy.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@pdiehm, you are talking about a very shallow sand bed. I don't think that 1" is deep enough to have any anaerobic area's like a deep sand bed would. The livestock you are talking about keeping in the sand would stir it enough that it would never produce the same results as a DSB. IMO, you need to decide why you want a sand bed. If it is for looks and possible livestock, then I would vacuum the heck out of it. If it is for the benefits of a DSB and anaerobic processes, then I would leave it alone like @reeferfoxx says, but you will need a lot more sand than 1". As always, different types of tanks take different approaches.

 

[reeferfoxx]

@pdiehm, you are talking about a very shallow sand bed. I don't think that 1" is deep enough to have any anaerobic area's like a deep sand bed would. The livestock you are talking about keeping in the sand would stir it enough that it would never produce the same results as a DSB. IMO, you need to decide why you want a sand bed. If it is for looks and possible livestock, then I would vacuum the heck out of it. If it is for the benefits of a DSB and anaerobic processes, then I would leave it alone like @reeferfoxx says, but you will need a lot more sand than 1". As always, different types of tanks take different approaches.

Not necessarily. I keep an undisturbed 1" sandbed that's full of spaghetti worms and other micro fauna. The anerobic zone would be at bottom most portion and the detritus build up wouldn't be exponential. Also, I'm not suggesting to never clean the sandbed, I'm only suggesting a fresh sandbed from dry sand shouldn't be disturbed in it's first year. Things need to establish.