Sand...maintenance of Sand

[ReefInskeep]

First, your LFS has some strange ideas and I’d say don’t listen to them.

If you plan on SPS dominance, go bare bottom. It’s easier. I’d use a thin layer of textured ABS siliconed to the bottom, white if you like the look and that’ll increase light reflection. (See BRSTV for example, though they use black per their visual preference.) You can still add the LPS you mention, zoas, encrusting LPS or SPS to the bottom. Most LPS do not need sand.

As far as sand playing a role in biological filtration, it’s unnecessary now. With media like Siporax or Matrix, etc., and our rocks, there is no need to treat modern shallow sand beds like they are vital.

Personally, I’m conflicted about it with my next build. I really, really like the look of wide open aquadcapes with sand between rock structures, and I like sand dwelling creatures. So I’ll probably go with larger grain reef flakes & do no more than 1-1.5” depth. With adequate flow, I’ve never experienced problems in my sand beds (all under 1.5”). My plan would be to let sand stirring & sifting creatures do most of my work for me, then stir & siphon out the sand when the spirit moves me.

Bottom line, either will work. Just depends on your preferences and plans.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Not necessarily. I keep an undisturbed 1" sandbed that's full of spaghetti worms and other micro fauna. The anerobic zone would be at bottom most portion and the detritus build up wouldn't be exponential. Also, I'm not suggesting to never clean the sandbed, I'm only suggesting a fresh sandbed from dry sand shouldn't be disturbed in it's first year. Things need to establish.

I'm not saying that you don't have other life in your sand, but I do question whether you have an anaerobic area in sand that is only 1" deep.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'm not saying that you don't have other life in your sand, but I do question whether you have an anaerobic area in sand that is only 1" deep.

I don't see why It wouldn't. Flow isnt exactly penatrating the sandbed. If seachems matrix and bio blocks can supply an anerobic zone in low flow environments, it wouldnt be too far fetch to assume the same in a 1" sandbed.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I don't see why It wouldn't. Flow isnt exactly penatrating the sandbed. If seachems matrix and bio blocks can supply an anerobic zone in low flow environments, it would be too far fetch to assume the same in a 1" sandbed.

If your sanded is as hard as a bio block, then sure. Since you have worms and other creatures living in and moving about the sand bed, I don't think it is. I'm sure that the creatures move throughout the depth of the 1" sand bed, which would make it very hard for them to survive if it really were and anaerobic area. Not to mention the movement bringing in water from other areas.

 

[pdiehm]

interesting. the less my hands are in a tank the better. usually my maintenance consists of dropping in a 1/2" x 1/4" cube of LRS every other day to feed 6 fish. I am hoping to not do water changes with the ATI essentials program...and by that logic, I'm thinking sand is a no-go since there's no plans to change the water but maybe once a month, once every other month as needed.

 

[reeferfoxx]

If your sanded is as hard as a bio block, then sure. Since you have worms and other creatures living in and moving about the sand bed, I don't think it is. I'm sure that the creatures move throughout the depth of the 1" sand bed, which would make it very hard for them to survive if it really were and anaerobic area. Not to mention the movement bringing in water from other areas.

I suppose that would depend on the grain size then? Spaghetti worms in my tank seem to not have any issue navigating through my special grade sand. Not sure if we are arguing here but suggesting a sandbed can't have anerobic zones is suggesting that live rock doesn't either?

 

[ReefInskeep]

interesting. the less my hands are in a tank the better. usually my maintenance consists of dropping in a 1/2" x 1/4" cube of LRS every other day to feed 6 fish. I am hoping to not do water changes with the ATI essentials program...and by that logic, I'm thinking sand is a no-go since there's no plans to change the water but maybe once a month, once every other month as needed.

You could still use sand without REGULAR water changes. People are overblowing the dangers and work involved with a wee shallow sandbed. Just whatever you prefer visually, what corals you plan to dominate, what kind of flow you need. You can use cucumbers, sand sifting starfish, snails, etc. and not have to do much of anything.

 

[reeferfoxx]

the less my hands are in a tank the better.

Agreed. That's why I don't mess with the sandbed. It's not difficult concept to swallow. Many tanks thrive with sand. Just understanding that it's not a constant wash and rinse battle to maintain it usually makes for a successful reef and vise versa. How do you like your cup of coffee?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I suppose that would depend on the grain size then? Spaghetti worms in my tank seem to not have any issue navigating through my special grade sand. Not sure if we are arguing here but suggesting a sandbed can't have anerobic zones is suggesting that live rock doesn't either?

I'm not saying that a sand bed can't have anaerobic areas, it just needs to be deeper than 1" IMO. It's the lack of movement through those areas of live rock and bio blocks that allow it to be anaerobic. Live rock and Bio Blocks have a much more solid structure than a sand bed. It's the depth of the sand bed that allows the anaerobic areas to form. A deep sand bed can have those areas, I just don't think a 1" sand bed can.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'm not saying that a sand bed can't have anaerobic areas, it just needs to be deeper than 1" IMO. It's the lack of movement through those areas of live rock and bio blocks that allow it to be anaerobic. Live rock and Bio Blocks have a much more solid structure than a sand bed. It's the depth of the sand bed that allows the anaerobic areas to form. A deep sand bed can have those areas, I just don't think a 1" sand bed can.

I think it can, imo. Just we are comparing a cup of water filled 1 inch opposed to a full glass. Which one will hydrate you more?

 

[pdiehm]

i'm going to dive into figuring out what to do tonight. stay barebottom or 1" sand. gun to my head, I'm leaning towards barebottom with the sps plan I have, but I'm still very intrigued by a floor of sand, and the additional critters I could keep.

 

[squampton]

I keep about 1" sand bed, maybe a little less, I prefer the look and the tank has a nice overall appearance to my eye. I don't find a really shallow sand bed hard to maintain, actually found bare bottom more time consuming trying to keep it algae free.

 

[Pntbll687]

I have what would be considered a deep sand bed, 1" in some areas and probably close to 4 in others. I get some algae in dead zones every once in a while but nothing to tell about.

I do maintain the top 1" or so, I stir or siphon it once a month or so to keep it looking nice.

If I was to set the tank up again ... BARE BOTTOM ALL THE WAY!!

wrasses causing dust storms and a power head losing suction and falling in the sand were a nightmare.

If you want sand for anaerobic areas, save your money and buy a couple marine pure blocks and put them in the sump.

 

[Dan_P]

@pdiehm, you are talking about a very shallow sand bed. I don't think that 1" is deep enough to have any anaerobic area's like a deep sand bed would.

For denitrification, an anoxic, low oxygen, environment is needed, not anaerobic. The latter encourages sulfide formation. Studies of reef substrates using micro oxygen probes find anoxic conditions at only millimeter depths. So, in principle it is possible for one inch of sand to provide low oxygen environments for nitrate reduction (conversion to to N2).

 

[PDR]

I am on the fence on how beneficial I think a shallow sandbed is, but I really prefer the look of sand. From everything I have been reading, it seems there are two main approaches that can work.

1. You clean the crap out of it on a regular basis and keep it pretty much devoid of detritus (and beneficial life). That way your tank is run similar to a bare bottom (from a detritus and microfauna standpoint).

2. You leave it alone for the most part but have a heavy stock of sand stirrers, detritivores, sand sifters, etc. This is harder to find the right balance and could still get out of hand. This is my preferred method so you still get most of the microfauna benefits and is more natural imo.

 

[brandon429]

look up Blusop's thread on sand stirring, its the intermediate between those two. they just keep nice normal beds but stir them regularly with a stick/casting up some waste and most goodies remain.

 

[Heavymman]

Wow, this is really making it easy for me to decide whether or not to go with barebottom or sand bed hopefully that represents the sarcasm

 

[brandon429]

One irony about sandbeds, if they had good things that registered benefits we could actually measure in them, the beds wouldn’t need cleaning at all. Even with worms, the sandbeds catch waste and are a source of bioloading we have to offset. The good things in them are incidentals, can live without, since the detritus overtakes them in time anyway. Sandbeds produce juvenile feed sources for the tank, that’s good stuff. They sell it as feed in the stores too, which is why bare bottom tankers aren’t measuring any lack of good stuff.

The nitrate reduction in sandbed, that’s attained 2% of every setup attempt, don’t count on that. It’s what marine sediments do, not tanks in any reliable nature. Today’s sandbeds are pumping nitrates, not absorbing them but in no way am I denying the biochemistry of reduction or that it can occur in our tanks, merely the harnessability. It’s lucked into, or, we’d have never shifted as a hobby into sandbed disturbance which NO procedure allowed in the 90s at all. That was the era of so much good stuff, can’t kill any of it or your whole tank will die.

Nanos =doesn’t matter how you go, they’re easily part cleaned. Large tanks, either bare or stirred, never just left in place or my thread shows you’d have to be lucky for it to work out.

My sandbed is below

Five inch bed, rinsed to snow globe level Cloudless, annually or thereabouts the rest of the time it just sits there taking on waste. That’s warm tap water, it doesn’t kill bacteria, it gives me never ending rinse ability so I’m not tempted to put back a half rinse, which is dangerous. Biggest misnomer in aquarium science, that tap will kill your filter bac. Not in the way we use it, which is briefly and not in contact 24x7

if tap was a sterilizer lab techs would just sanitize their work area with tap at the end of each shift...no quat, no bleach or alcohol required. The final rinse is clean saltwater, so that all my corals go back on top of the system with no tap water in it...skip cycle. It never stops, skip cycling is easy, just keep sensitives away from detritus.

Twelve yrs

I don’t have to dose bacteria, just change water and feed it and the system regulates all it’s bacteria forever and corals never get any diseases and nothing invades the tank etc, all due to the occasional reef storm + export run

 

[JumboShrimp]

I have a 1” sand bed, and plan to split-the-baby. I’m leaving it alone for about the first year, then I’ll stir it in small ‘sections’ at a time, maybe once or twice a month—lifting some ‘junk’ into the water column to be filtered, while leaving the majority of the sand bed undisturbed until the next small stir.

 

[brandon429]

Yep it’ll work. One reason that’s ideal over animals is because our hand stirring isn’t contributing a bioloading to the tank, it’s reducing it via export.

A starfish? Exports nothing, adds poop to the bed. Work too slow

A goby? Works fast enough to actually kick up waste. But not at the bottom, that’s still worms, and poop, and the goby adds to bioloading as well but they’re still my fav animals for the job/speedy and busy.

Our hand stirring really helps to guide. I won’t go bare bottom, reefs have sand. I’m a blast cleaner but I let it store up waste ten mos out of the year. One of these is due soon