Second Jedi Mind Trick RTN

[Mattrg02]

Hello,
So I have an issue keeping this coral alive. My second frag is RTNing. It's been in the tank for a week on the bottom. I moved it up a few inches the day before yesterday and now all hell broke loose. It's RTNing.

It's had outstanding color and then I come home to see a few small grey spots in its center. There is mucous coming from these spots as well. Now, this morning, it's clearly going the same way the previous one did. It's just disolving away.

Other recent changes was removing my carbon and dirty sponge from my HOB filter. I also upped the kessil intensity some for an hours time each day.

No other corals are doing this.

Nitrates are zero
Phosphates are zero on API
temp is 78F
Sg is 1.026
Alk is 11dkh
Calcium is 440
Don't have a magnesium test

Tank size is 17g
Light is kessil a160we
Flow is mp10 reef crest mode 100% strength.

I've read patassium could be a cause? I use tropic Marin pro reef salt.

Any ideas?

 

[Tahoe61]

Just some ideas.

In a 17 gallon tank with a mp10 at 100% reef crest, you probably need to place the Montipora in a lower flow area.
I would let the alk drift down to 8 or 9.
Double check SG value just to rule that out, it can be sneaky.

The Jedi Mind Trick monitpora seems like a fairly hardy coral in my experience. Mine is directly under my Hydra getting blasted with light, mod flow, Ca 450, Alk 8-9 and mag at 1500. It grows quickly and has great color.

Did you get the second piece from the same distributor or individual? How long did you have the piece before you noticed the decline?

 

[Mattrg02]

I got it from the same LFS. He's got large colonies of it. His frags have been growing over their plugs nicely, but are in a low flow and low light tank. Both went one week looking great, then went south the next day. This time, I moved it up a few inches. I was under the impression my light was probably underpowered if anything.

 

[Tahoe61]

I have mine under a Hydra at 70%, right under the light, it seems to really like getting blasted. I did acclimate it for about 2 months on the bottom though.

If you try again I would leave it lower in the tank a lot longer. I acclimate for weeks before moving stuff up, especially if it comes from a lower light intensity. Is the LFS colony under LED's?

No additions of Potassium, I would be surprised of that is the issue. Mine does seem to react positively to the addition of Sponge Power and Reef Roids.

 

[Mattrg02]

I have mine under a Hydra at 70%, right under the light, it seems to really like getting blasted. I did acclimate it for about 2 months on the bottom though.

If you try again I would leave it lower in the tank a lot longer. I acclimate for weeks before moving stuff up, especially if it comes from a lower light intensity. Is the LFS colony under LED's?

No additions of Potassium, I would be surprised of that is the issue. Mine does seem to react positively to the addition of Sponge Power and Reef Roids.

It came from an led lit tank,
But it was a 20k tank and dim.

I'm using tropic Marin pro reef salt, any rumors of it being low in trace elements?

Would too much light kill in one day? It went from colorful to RTN in less than a day after moving.

 

[Tahoe61]

No not in one day.

Never used Marin Pro salt but I have heard good things about it.

If possible either get a frag somewhere else of Jedi or find out what your LFS system parameters are. It has to be acclimation to light or chemistry to happen that fast.

 

[Mattrg02]

No not in one day.

Never used Marin Pro salt but I have heard good things about it.

If possible either get a frag somewhere else of Jedi or find out what your LFS system parameters are. It has to be acclimation to light or chemistry to happen that fast.

Their water is close to mine, but their lighting and flow aren't. Maybe that's all it took?

 

[Tahoe61]

I got mine from LA via ORA so mine shipped and has never given me any grief.

Ruled out pest because the main colony would show infestation, ruled out aggression by another coral because you have moved your pieces. However if your pieces were by an LPS and within distance of night time stinging tentacles that could do a lot of damage.

Sure hope you get it figured out, it's one of my favorite sps. The purple rim and red polyps are awesome.

What other sps do you have?

Edit: noticed your running low nutrients, I would for sure let that alk drift down to 8 or 9 before trying another piece.

 

[Mattrg02]

I got mine from LA via ORA so mine shipped and has never given me any grief.

Ruled out pest because the main colony would show infestation, ruled out aggression by another coral because you have moved your pieces. However if your pieces were by an LPS and within distance of night time stinging tentacles that could do a lot of damage.

Sure hope you get it figured out, it's one of my favorite sps. The purple rim and red polyps are awesome.

What other sps do you have?

Edit: noticed your running low nutrients, I would for sure let that alk drift down to 8 or 9 before trying another piece.

Yes the nutrients are low. I can't get alkalinity to drop anymore. The water change water is 9dkh, and I don't dose anything. I'm guessing the frags aren't using much right now either.

Funny, I've never had to try to get nutrients up and alkalinity down before.

 

[Tahoe61]

Yup I hear ya.

My tank is 20 gal I have 1 fish. I feed extremely lightly, but I do dose Nano Zeo Pack, and a few other items. I keep my alk right between 8-9 or else my sps show decreased pe, coloration and growth. I also use Kalk in the ATO.

Also I have the Mp10QD, and our tanks are similar in size.

Water changes are once monthly with IO because I really have no significant bio-load.

 

[Mattrg02]

I'm guessing a few more water changes will get alkalinity down?

What are you running your mp10 on? I've thought about lowering the speed some.

 

[Tahoe61]

Probably around 80% on the Mp10, and the stock pump runs at 295 gph.

The alk should drift down with no water changes in a week or two.

These are the parameters for Marin salt mix per Marin Pro site:

approx. 7° KH, calcium approx. 440 ppm, magnesium approx. 1350 ppm

http://www.tropic-marin.com/meersalze/pro-reef-meersalz/?lang=en#

What test kits are you using? If you do not have a Hanna Alk checker and it's in your budget get one if you want to keep sps.

 

[Tahoe61]

You can see my Jedi right up front.

 

[Mattrg02]

Maybe the kessil is much more powerful than I thought and this "high" alkalinity mixed with low nutrients is to blame?

I may try the JMT again some day, once alkalinity is lower, and I've worked out what to think about this kessil light. The last light was just diy with 3w Cree LEDs. Everything seemed to grow well with those. This kessil looks much nicer, but who knows?

 

[Mattrg02]

It's still hanging in there after placing back on the bottom. Maybe it will survive and come back?

 

[Russ265]

i had this very same problem. rtn frag after frag with sps.

i eventually dropped alk to 7. my alk remains between 7.2-7.8 at all times.

i dosed potassium nitrate until i got 5 ppm no3.

i turned gfo off and let it go until i got .08 ppm po4. then i turn it on for a few hours til it gets to near 0 again and then shut it off.

the alk is what is causing rtn. photosynthesis cannot occur without no3 and po4. so coral rtns due to forcing of calcium carbonate and nothing to photosynthesize.

once alk is in the 7s i just look at corals, when they start to pale or lose color i dose more no3. usually my test reads 1 ppm when this happens.

hth

 

[Mattrg02]

i had this very same problem. rtn frag after frag with sps.

i eventually dropped alk to 7. my alk remains between 7.2-7.8 at all times.

i dosed potassium nitrate until i got 5 ppm no3.

i turned gfo off and let it go until i got .08 ppm po4. then i turn it on for a few hours til it gets to near 0 again and then shut it off.

the alk is what is causing rtn. photosynthesis cannot occur without no3 and po4. so coral rtns due to forcing of calcium carbonate and nothing to photosynthesize.

once alk is in the 7s i just look at corals, when they start to pale or lose color i dose more no3. usually my test reads 1 ppm when this happens.

hth

So it seems that low nutrients and "high" dKH can be killer to some sps. I'm still letting my dKH drop (via PWC using my own water) from having the LFS water spike it to 18 dKH.

It's still has some color! Maybe It'll live?

 

[Russ265]

So it seems that low nutrients and "high" dKH can be killer to some sps. I'm still letting my dKH drop (via PWC using my own water) from having the LFS water spike it to 18 dKH.

It's still has some color! Maybe It'll live?

not likely. you are probably dropping parameters so fast that itll go in to shock and die.

just being honest. your low nutrient system gives way little to error

 

[twilliard]

Its a zero nitrate issue..
well said Russ!

 

[Russ265]

Its a zero nitrate issue..
well said Russ!

well they would pale and look sickly if it was JUST 0 nitrates.

his alk is just sky high for such little nutrients and he is just begging for rtn