Seeking Oppinions for Tank Tear Down

[GoatmealJones]

Hello all,

Ive had my 50 gallon mixed reef running for a little over 2 months. Recently, I had 2 fish die of very severe velvet/ich and all of my acros are RTN, not one is alive anymore. Im considering just re starting my tank at this point.

I used 50 lbs of KP aquatics LR, cured it for 2 weeks until all parameters checked out. I want to re start this system as clean as possible. Should I cook the LR? Cure it in copper based medication to kill of pests? My plan would be to cycle with bottled bacteria and start with a totally clean slate. Im talking fully emptying my tank, throwing out the sand, and keeping my healthy corals in a temporary 15 gallon frag tank for now.

I do not want to deal with what seems to be widespread bacterial/pathogen/pest issues again. Also of note, there are multiple snapping shrimp that have killed all my snails and are super annoying because my tank is by my bed. At this point, I am willing to sacrifice the life on the live rock.

What is the best way to "disinfect" the LR? In a perfect world, the cloraline algae would survive, but i know thats probably not going to happen. I am going to use new sand, and completely scrub down the tank. Its been an awful past couple weeks dealing with tank wide medical issues and the snapping shrimps. Unfortunately, ive lost quite a bit of livestock, so im willing to go extreme to make sure the re-start of the tank starts with a clean base.

Thanks to anyone who can help!
GJ

 

[James M]

You’re moving way too fast. Your tank has been setup for 2 months old, Which explains why your having problems with the sps.
Instead of restarting why don’t you do a 76 day fallow and then take things slow

 

[ScooterV]

I agree, a tear down on something still so new seems extreme, while a possible fallow period and letting things settle would likely do. It's also not a huge tank, so even if traps don't work you can likely pull a rock out quick when need to pull a pest out.

Speaking of the shrimp though, pistol or mantis?

Things in this hobby can certainly wear us down, but don't give up.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Never ever use copper on live rock. It will continue to leach out and kill inverts and corals for a long time.

If you are not going to quarantine the fish before putting them in the display you might consider a high quality UVC sterelizer before adding any new fish.

It might be better to establish your inverts first including some filter feeders before adding fish. We used to wait 6 months before adding fish to new systems to allow the system to mature.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

This hobby can be really frustrating. I'm going through a similar thing right now. You're considering starting over. I'm considering breaking down and running a fancy goldfish tank. A hobby is supposed to be fun right? I'm not having fun and am out some few hundred bucks. Well, anyway, I'm not the best person to ask at the moment. It sounds like your primary issue is with those shrimps, just dunk all of your live rock in RO/DI water for a couple mins, shrimps will flee the rock and or die along with other invert pests, and then back in the tank. Then the coralline may survive or at least not die off completely.

 

[GoatmealJones]

Another thing to add: a bag of 500 ml Carbon and Purigen burst in my main tank and my sand looks terrible. It bothers me quite a bit to be honest and Ive tried to clean it but it is just a part of the sand now. In addition, I have basically torn apart my aquascape to try to catch the snapping shrimp/s, so I see this as a good opportunity to just start clean. I was having success growing SPS early on, however, I bought 3 maricultured large Acros and they all RTN'd pretty much instantly. Ever since then, my acros have been dieing. I also read that to eliminate velvet you must undergo several months without fish. IMO itrs easier just to start over with clean, non carbon polluted sand and at least have a chance to eliminate all pests with a freshwater dip. IMO, starting over would only put me back 2 months and would eliminate many problems.

 

[shred5]

Do not dip the rock in freshwater that will kill allot of stuff in the rock like sponges and start a new cycle. Totally defeats the purpose of live rock.
What kind of shrimp? Most are not harmful even mantis shrimp when small. If you hear popping it could be a pistol shrimp and for many they are desirable.
Shrimp and crabs are not too hard to trap. A small water bottle and some food or you can lure them out and spear.

 

[Lukas75]

You’re moving way too fast. Your tank has been setup for 2 months old, Which explains why your having problems with the sps.
Instead of restarting why don’t you do a 76 day fallow and then take things slow

+1 let the tank go fallow to kill off the parasites and slow down. Even with the rock you bought 2 months is way too fast for acros. I would also use the 15 gallon as a quarantine and prophylactically treat all fish you add to the tank to avoid introducing disease to the tank in the future.

As for the snapping shrimp there are a number of ways to deal with this from a freshwater dip as suggested to introducing a predator like a wrasse. I too have encountered the issue of having a pistol shrimp in a bedroom tank, and I did it on purpose!! I will never do that again...

 

[GoatmealJones]

I think my plan will be as follows:

- Empty entire contents of tank

- Remove all LR and "cycle" it for a few weeks in buckets, during which I will manually remove pests and hopefully dilute any parasite with numerous large frequent water changes and hyper/hypo salinity dips. Will not expose the LR to anything which might be biologically unfriendly but will scrub the rock and treat this as the fallow period. Since there will be no livestock, I will be able to do 100 percent wc's without worrying about worrying too much about params. I assume that this would allow me to hasten the fallow process, but let me know if I am wrong. Note: I do not want to sterilize the rock, but just want to clean up any parasitic/bacteriaal issues as fast as possible without harming livestock in such a psuedocuring process..

- All current livestock could easily be contained in my frag tank until new sand, clean rock, etc., so thats taken care of.

- When Live Rock is deemed to be sufficiently fallowed, add new arag alive sand to main tank, fill with water, and add rock. Monitor for cycle, and begin the process of re establishing a hopefully "clean", pest free setup. Add back the livestock I currently have at appropriate pace. Really, its the sand that really bothers me. There is so much carbon and i figure if im going to replace the sand, I might as well isolate the LR for fallow.

 

[ScooterV]

Unless you entirely sterilize the rock, and everything else, you can't make the fallow period go quicker.

Ultimately, it's up to you, but it seems you moved too fast besides possible parasites. The fallow period will give more time for the tank to stabilize. Getting whatever the shrimp is out would be the only issue in MY head. For the sand, you could move the rock to totes for a brief bit and scoop most of the sand out, then put the rock back.

 

[russell13]

I would try to trap the shrimp first. You can can use a few small bottle traps that are easy to make. I’m sure if you google it there are many how to videos. You can also check on your tank in the middle of the night long after all the lights have gone off. I found a small crab in my tank that hitchhiked in on a big coral. Thankfully it wasn’t a bad one

 

[GoatmealJones]

You’re moving way too fast. Your tank has been setup for 2 months old, Which explains why your having problems with the sps.
Instead of restarting why don’t you do a 76 day fallow and then take things slow

It is difficult because there is no guarantee that even a ~70 day fallow period will in fact kill of all of the microorganisms. It there research indicating that such a fallow period always works? I am not well educated on this topic. I will now only introduce quarantined specimens into any tank of mine. Unfortunately had to learn that part the hard way, but it is what it is. Doesnt take away all the fun and rewarding experiences that I have had on account of my young tank and will push forward.

 

[ScooterV]

A fallow period will for sure eliminate ich, velvet, and flukes. This assumes you aren't like me, and catch yourself too late putting your hands in right after they were in a QT Even the 76 days for ich is to be safe, and based on the one and only strain that survived that long. In most cases, fallow would clear it up even sooner.

In the meantime, your tank is cycled. You may disrupt it, but it seems like a waste to go backwards if you can catch whatever the shrimp is. The tank will have a lot of time to stabilize. If you start over you're back to square one and will want to rush adding coral again. Well, I would want to rush anyway, lol.

 

[GoatmealJones]

You know what ill try it and see how it goes without starting over. Perhaps it will be rewarding and good learning experience and worst case scenario I could start over.

 

[Lukas75]

It is difficult because there is no guarantee that even a ~70 day fallow period will in fact kill of all of the microorganisms. It there research indicating that such a fallow period always works? I am not well educated on this topic. I will now only introduce quarantined specimens into any tank of mine. Unfortunately had to learn that part the hard way, but it is what it is. Doesnt take away all the fun and rewarding experiences that I have had on account of my young tank and will push forward.

The 76 day fallow period has been well documented. Slow down, nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

 

[GoatmealJones]

The 76 day fallow period has been well documented. Slow down, nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

Im not saying that it it doesnt work, but rather that nothing in life is certain and in some isolated cases im sure there remained malicious microorganisms post day 76. It might not be often, but its daunting given the amount of sacrifice and patience it takes to engage in the fallow process. One must consider the possibility that on certain occasions the fallow period still renders the ecosystem as infected despite the efforts. Just want to make it clear I am not illegitimizing the technique, but rather pointing out that theres no guarantee (to anything in life) and that in some cases alternative methods should be tried first which can potentially achieve the results in a smaller timeframe. I respect your adherence to being patient and conscientious, but I personally am more aggressive in my approach, knowing I can always fall back on patience if my intuition proves to be wrong.

 

[RJinPV]

Seems like you are intent on a teardown, but just in case I'll add my 2 cents. The sand is your biggest complaint besides the shrimp. Early in my tank's life I swapped the sand out and replaced it without disturbing the rock. All of the live rock was on the bottom on the tank (not sitting on sand) so I siphoned the old sand out into a bucket and then pumped the water back in threw the filter sock. I repeated this a few times until all the sand was out (95% of it anyway) . I then added new sand. The tank had fish in it and all came through fine. Since you tank has only been going for two months there is not likely to be a lot of detritus in it with dead anaerobic zones so it shout be ok

 

[GoatmealJones]

Yeah. My reasoning is that ive had my reef setup for such a short time that I dont have much ecological maturity to lose in the first place. If my setup was existed on the scale of years i would approach this differently for sure.

 

[VA5]

I may have missed it but what parameters are you checking for your water and what water are you adding (bought at LRS, RODI or tap)
If the basic chemistry of your tank is off it will make inhabitants more susceptible to pathogens.
You should know ammonia , pH, salinity, alkalinity, Ca, Mg and nitrates. Also at beginning I would check ammonia and phosphates . Also remember these parameters will change as more live stock is added. The system is particularly vulnerable to changes when it is first set up.
Also I’d wait at least 6 months before adding any SPS especially acros. Last statement is just my thoughts.
One last comment if you do tear down your tank I use reef rock. Good price, looks nice and no need to cure.

 

[GoatmealJones]

*Temp 79.5-80.0 (set on controller). All tests salifert excpt SPGrav