Setting up a quarantine tank

[fishnchip]

And very opinionated answers at that! ;Blackeye

I can tell you that every fish that goes into my tank is treated with copper or CP. My 187g has multiple tangs and is borderline on being big enough for them. I would never try this without quarantining everything. I'm also trying to get my system SPS dominant. I recommend prophylactic treating for anyone who will do more than lightly stock their system or who doesn't want a natural reef look. And no, a tank full of big beautiful SPS isn't what you are going to see on the majority of reefs.

I’ve heard of some people using too much CP and killing their fish. Is this a concern? As long as I follow the directions on the bottle should I be good?

 

[Brew12]

I’ve heard of some people using too much CP and killing their fish. Is this a concern? As long as I follow the directions on the bottle should I be good?

What do the directions on the bottle say?
My experience is that the hardest part of treating with CP is accurately measuring it. I ended up getting a jewelers scale which works well.

 

[Brew12]

I’ve heard of some people using too much CP and killing their fish. Is this a concern? As long as I follow the directions on the bottle should I be good?

I should point out that many wrasses don't do well with CP. I think there is some recent evidence to say it may be safer than originally though. Maybe @Humblefish, @HotRocks or @4FordFamily can help. I always refer to this chart.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

 

[4FordFamily]

I should point out that many wrasses don't do well with CP. I think there is some recent evidence to say it may be safer than originally though. Maybe @Humblefish, @HotRocks or @4FordFamily can help. I always refer to this chart.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

I believe @Humblefish said that he has not had much issue with fairy wrasse with CP.

I will say the @HotRocks and I have not seen much negative affects of Copper Power if checked by the Hanna Copper Checker at 1.75PPM. We've acclimated ours to 1 PPM on arrival, per @Humblefish's suggestion and it is working much better than starting at zero. Not sure why.

 

[4FordFamily]

Also -- I have zero experience with CP. I've not seen a need to use it with Copper Power and the Hanna Copper Checker pairing. We will continue to test but it's a game changer from the ~35 fish we've put through. These included a myriad of tangs, angels, wrasse, and a few hawkfish, cardinals, an orchid dottyback, and a few clownfish.

 

[Brew12]

Also -- I have zero experience with CP. I've not seen a need to use it with Copper Power and the Hanna Copper Checker pairing. We will continue to test but it's a game changer from the ~35 fish we've put through. These included a myriad of tangs, angels, wrasse, and a few hawkfish, cardinals, an orchid dottyback, and a few clownfish.

I still have a good bottle of Coppersafe which has been my go-to. The only reason I got some CP from my vet was for my Mandarin.

 

[fishnchip]

Also -- I have zero experience with CP. I've not seen a need to use it with Copper Power and the Hanna Copper Checker pairing. We will continue to test but it's a game changer from the ~35 fish we've put through. These included a myriad of tangs, angels, wrasse, and a few hawkfish, cardinals, an orchid dottyback, and a few clownfish.

What would you recommend using as a precautionary QT medication?

 

[fishnchip]

I still have a good bottle of Coppersafe which has been my go-to. The only reason I got some CP from my vet was for my Mandarin.

is it the blue copper power?

 

[Brew12]

is it the blue copper power?

Yes, blue is for marine fish.

 

[HotRocks]

is it the blue copper power?

Yes copper power blue.

I have ran several wrasse through copper power at 1.75ppm. With the Hanna checker I have seen zero "sensitivity" from wrasse and chelated copper. This includes several variants of leopard wrasse, halichores, fairy, and flashers.

I have zero experience with CP as well. Have yet to find a vet here locally that will meet our needs. I don't trust the eBay CP. Purity is unknown and as mentioned above I have no reason to move away from copper.

 

[fishnchip]

Yes copper power blue.

I have ran several wrasse through copper power at 1.75ppm. With the Hanna checker I have seen zero "sensitivity" from wrasse and chelated copper. This includes several variants of leopard wrasse, halichores, fairy, and flashers.

I have zero experience with CP as well. Have yet to find a vet here locally that will meet our needs. I don't trust the eBay CP. Purity is unknown and as mentioned above I have no reason to move away from copper.

okay thanks!

 

[artieg1]

Just to add my two cents, QT is relatively painless if you follow the basic steps outlined by others above. After the fish have adjusted and are eating well (1-2 weeks), I do 30 days with CP or copper, to kill the really nasty stuff like velvet (ich eradication is just icing on the cake). Don't crowd them, watch their eating habits. You are going to lose some fish in QT, but most of the time you would have lost them in the DT too, only now they've gone and exposed everybody.

 

[fishnchip]

What's the consensus on Cupramine? Easier on fish?

 

[fishnchip]

Just to add my two cents, QT is relatively painless if you follow the basic steps outlined by others above. After the fish have adjusted and are eating well (1-2 weeks), I do 30 days with CP or copper, to kill the really nasty stuff like velvet (ich eradication is just icing on the cake). Don't crowd them, watch their eating habits. You are going to lose some fish in QT, but most of the time you would have lost them in the DT too, only now they've gone and exposed everybody.

very true! thank you! everyone has been very helpful

 

[HotRocks]

What would you recommend using as a precautionary QT medication?

I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 1.75ppm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level). If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath.

My Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

 

[Big G]

What's the consensus on Cupramine? Easier on fish?

Cupramine is fine but the therapeutic range is very tight. You have a much larger range when using Copper Power. But for both, the Hanna HL Copper Checker is the hot setup.

 

[Forsaken77]

I’m not 100% sure but if it does I’ll add some sand in a Tupperware

I have a few wrasses that bury. What I did was setup a basic new tank with new saltwater. No bio-filtration because once the ammonia badge starts reading ammonia, I would change 95% of the water on a 10 gallon so the fish was always in fresh, clean water. Plus I treat for internal infections and that would wipe out the bio filter anyway. Changing 8 gallons every 3 days with a small fish is no problem. You always know the water is spot-on.

But as to the wrasse, I would make a small pile of fine sand along the side of the tank for him to bury, front to back. They may not go in a tupperware container.

As for the ammonia alert badge... You can check to see if it's functional by dipping a q-tip in ammonia and placing it near the center dial. The odor should change the color. Also, once the badge detects ammonia, it can take a few hours to go back to normal. So don't think it's not working if it doesn't change back to yellow right away . Good luck!

 

[fishnchip]

I have a few wrasses that bury. What I did was setup a basic new tank with new saltwater. No bio-filtration because once the ammonia badge starts reading ammonia, I would change 95% of the water on a 10 gallon so the fish was always in fresh, clean water. Plus I treat for internal infections and that would wipe out the bio filter anyway. Changing 8 gallons every 3 days with a small fish is no problem. You always know the water is spot-on.

But as to the wrasse, I would make a small pile of fine sand along the side of the tank for him to bury, front to back. They may not go in a tupperware container.

As for the ammonia alert badge... You can check to see if it's functional by dipping a q-tip in ammonia and placing it near the center dial. The odor should change the color. Also, once the badge detects ammonia, it can take a few hours to go back to normal. So don't think it's not working if it doesn't change back to yellow right away . Good luck!

Thank you!! This was very helpful! I'll be finishing the setup today actually! Thanks

 

[fishnchip]

I've heard of some people keeping their salinity levels lower in their quarantine tank. Around 1.018ish. Is this a good idea for fish and shrimp? Not the display but only the QT?

 

[HotRocks]

I've heard of some people keeping their salinity levels lower in their quarantine tank. Around 1.018ish. Is this a good idea for fish and shrimp? Not the display but only the QT?

Inverts probably wont tolerate the lower salinity. You really need a separate QT for corals and inverts anyway. I keep mine at 1.026.

I do keep salinity low upon arrival with new fish. But I slowly increase it by topping off with saltwater opposed to fresh until I get the salinity matching my DT.