Should i just restart?

[ChrisfromBrick]

I would also consider getting different nitrate and phosphate tests. just in case.

 

[Pvtgloss]

Maybe stop with this, obviously it is not working and in my opinion can cause more instability in reef tank. I don’t think corals use Fluconazole in the ocean.

Just y opinion.

Im done with fluconazole, lol.

 

[RelaxingWithTheReef]

I agree. I don't know what's going on.
I add pods regularly. Last time I added 64oz from reef legends. That's a lot of pops! Lol. Phyto seemed to have raised the nutrients.
I've added 5 Mexican turbos several times. Last time I added 5 at once. They didn't touch it and eventually died. I don't know if they starved or hermits got them.
This is the cuc I've added in the past year trying to tackle this algae. I already had a diverse cuc when adding these.

6/2/23
sea hare (died)
7/2/23
sea hare (replaced the one that died and then died shortly after)
9/11/23
2Cortez Cerith
6 Florida Cerith
5Astraea Snails
3Blue Leg Hermit Crab
20Dwarf Cerith
2Emerald/Ruby Mithrax Crab
1Indo Turbo Snail
4Nassarius Vibex
5Nerite Snail
1Smooth Turbo Snails
1/24/24
emerald crab (replaced one that died)
1/28/24
5 Blue Legged Hermit Crabs
5 Red Legged Hermit Crabs
5 Black Margarita Snail
10 Cerith Snail
10 Trochus Snails
3/20/24
1 Tuxedo Urchin (stays on glass and seams)
10 Astrea Snails
5 LARGE Mexican Turbo Snail
6/25/24
1 Lettuce Nudibranch (moved off of rocks and found the glass)
1 Pencil Urchin (have not moved much since adding him)
2 Fuzzy Chitons (they moved off of the rocks and found the glass)

The only thing CUC really helps with is the glass. I never have to clean glass, lol.
But eventually they die and i have a sandbed full of shells.

I feel like I've tried everything.
When I replaced the tank I used new sand that I rinsed for like 8hrs! I rip cleaned the rocks with h202, brushes and picks.
Fluconazole treatment after Fluconazole. Single dose, double dose, back to back doses. Micro dose.
I've tried all the bottled bacteria.
The only thing I haven't tried yet is vibrant.

Have you looked at the GHA under a microscope? It’s possible the algae contains a toxic pest like Ostreopsis Dinos. That could explain why everything is avoiding it, and why the CUC does not last.

Also, not sure if you run UV, but it seems that Fluconazole is broken down by UV.

 

[danreef55]

Hi Pvtgloss,
Just wondering how you have made out.
Wish you best of luck

 

[BristleWormHater]

Try a tuxedo urchin they are hair algae lawnmowers, sorry if you already tried that

 

[BristleWormHater]

Brightwell Aquatic's chemiclean might work?

 

[BristleWormHater]

Never mind my posts I just read the whole thing I'm no help here, sorry.

 

[JHSteepat]

Have you looked at the GHA under a microscope? It’s possible the algae contains a toxic pest like Ostreopsis Dinos. That could explain why everything is avoiding it, and why the CUC does not last.

Is this a thing?

I have not been able to keep an algae-eating invert for more than a couple of months. I have a 1 year old tank with a prolonged GHA problem (Marco plus some live), and still have some hermits and a nassarius or two, but the rest are gone. This is 100+ cerith, MX turbos, fighting conchs, tuxedo urchin, Astraea - I probably forgot a few. The tank is otherwise very stable, with active, happy fish and mostly growing corals (LPS and SPS). Phos and nitrate are generally low (NO3 typically undetectable, phosphate is typically <0.1 - Hanna), Alk around 8.5, Ca around 440, Mg around 1350. ATI ICP test found no Cu or other toxic metals.

Running an ATS opposite lights (VERY slow growth, still not fully grown out at six months).

Is it worth running UV?

 

[paragrouper]

True! Good point.

Unless you go for live rock

 

[Pvtgloss]

Hi Pvtgloss,
Just wondering how you have made out.
Wish you best of luck

Not good, lol.
By the end of the week it's the same thing. Same thing every week, long locks of hair smothering corals and power heads. The tuxedo urchin and chitons stay on the glass. The Lettuce nudibranch must have starved. Pencil urchin only hangs out where there's no algae. The tang and mollies won't touch it. It takes me about 4 hours a week to carefully scrub and siphon it all in a sock and clean out all the powerheads. All that work on top of the normal maintenance im up to like 6 hours weekly on this little 37gal display. Nutrients still at no3 14.3 and po4 .02. I'm well over $1k in trying to beat this algae with cuc and chemicals. I can't justify a uv sterilizer or ATS.
It's too much work and money to be stuck with a tank full of hair. Our other tank has hair algae but it's nothing like this. It comes off easy, grows slow compared to this and cuc takes care of it for the most part.
My game plan is to restart. Corals and all. I don't want to transfer a single cell of this algae over to the restart. With that decision made and accepting I'm about to lose my corals either way, I'm going to hit it with vibrant. It's the only thing I haven't tried. I've tried every chemical, every cuc, and every method including rip cleaning.
Here's this week's pictures.

 

[Pvtgloss]

Have you looked at the GHA under a microscope? It’s possible the algae contains a toxic pest like Ostreopsis Dinos. That could explain why everything is avoiding it, and why the CUC does not last.

Also, not sure if you run UV, but it seems that Fluconazole is broken down by UV.

Yeah, I posted microscope pic in this thread.
Thread 'It's back!!!' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/its-back.1036055/
Im not using uv.

 

[Pod_01]

Just a suggestion or observation.
When I re-read your responses:

For filtration I use socks and floss. The skimmer is a rsk 300 DC. I use gfo to keep po4 around .04. I tried a refugium bit out gets over ran with algae.
I dose the normal alk cal and mag.
I do dose Elima-NP. Not sure how much it works but po4 is stable so I keep doing it.
I feed once a day. CS pro flake or DKI pellets. All the food gets ate within a min. Sometimes I'll feed SF Bay mysis, half a cube.
It's a Max e170 with the sump is 55gal. It's 2 1/2 years old. I do 10 gal water change weekly.

I do use gfo and maintain decently low po4, .04 to .06 usually.

My nutrients are:
N03 15.1
Po4 .03
They stay stable. I don't really want to lowered them much more.

From my experience controlling algae by keeping PO4 low will lead to algae bloom just like in your tank.

When you have low PO4 in a new / relatively new tank your corals are starving and are unable to grow while algae is able to get what it needs from the rock and outcompetes the corals. You want your corals to outcompete the algae, at the moment your strategy is in favour of algae.
If you have established tank, lot of corals and fish you can have low PO4.

Also from my experience use of GFO has negative effects on corals. I am not sure why but every time I used it, corals didn’t thrive. Yes it reduces PO4, but I suspect it reduces other important elements. I would definitely discontinue for at least couple months and see what happens.

I also would use TM Bacto Ballance instead of Elimin NP. This is to promote bacteria so corals have other food source. Bacteria consumes PO4 and corals consume the bacteria. In your case I would use 0.3ml a day, this is not for nutrients control.

Next I would try to feed FM Soft Multi Mix pellets only. I prefer this fish food, I use it and feed my fish 3/4 times a day. Frozen food and others are good but can add other things to your water column and feed algae. I would cut out all other coral / fish foods for few months.

Lights can also play a role, I have rations and mitras over mine running AB+ profile at 75%. My tank is Red Sea Reefer 250.

That is my suggestion, you still will need to manually remove the algae but over time there should be less. Once corals cover the main rocks you will have lot less to scrub.
I would monitor the PO4 and if it gets too high (above 0.5 ) maybe consider small use of GFO. I had PO4 at 1ppm and there was no impact on corals or excess algae.

Good luck,

 

[cdemoss01]

This algae just keeps coming back. It spreads and spreads. I feel like I've tried everything. Lowered the lights, just blues and UV channels.
In January I rip cleaned the whole tank and all the rocks. Replaced all the sand with new sand I rinsed out fit 8 hrs, lol.
Lowered n03 and p04 to 14 and .04.
I've tried every snails, hermit crab, emerald crab, urchins, and sea hares. I'm going broke. Lol. I'm buying them by the dozens every few months. I bought a small yellow tang, saltwater mollies. Nothing eats it.
So I'm thinking bryopsis. I've probably done 7 doses of fluconazole within the last year. I just finished up a single dose for 21 days or so and then hit it with a double dose for another 27 days. Didn't faze it.
I go in twice a week pulling. Once a week with a nylon brush and siphon hose going to a filter sock in the sump. I scrub and siphon meticulous. 2 or 3 hours while siphoning a d blowing off all time rocks. The tank looks good for a few days but of I go out of town for a few days it looks like this.
Should I just pull the corals and put them in spare tanks while break the tank down and bleach the rocks? Or should I just keep what I'm doing and pull time rocks out every few months and rip clean the tank? I feel like I'll waste more effort trying to control it then if I were to just restart. I have extra tanks around to put the livestock in while I restart.
What is this stuff?

I'm in the same boat as you brother

 

[cdemoss01]

Not good, lol.
By the end of the week it's the same thing. Same thing every week, long locks of hair smothering corals and power heads. The tuxedo urchin and chitons stay on the glass. The Lettuce nudibranch must have starved. Pencil urchin only hangs out where there's no algae. The tang and mollies won't touch it. It takes me about 4 hours a week to carefully scrub and siphon it all in a sock and clean out all the powerheads. All that work on top of the normal maintenance im up to like 6 hours weekly on this little 37gal display. Nutrients still at no3 14.3 and po4 .02. I'm well over $1k in trying to beat this algae with cuc and chemicals. I can't justify a uv sterilizer or ATS.
It's too much work and money to be stuck with a tank full of hair. Our other tank has hair algae but it's nothing like this. It comes off easy, grows slow compared to this and cuc takes care of it for the most part.
My game plan is to restart. Corals and all. I don't want to transfer a single cell of this algae over to the restart. With that decision made and accepting I'm about to lose my corals either way, I'm going to hit it with vibrant. It's the only thing I haven't tried. I've tried every chemical, every cuc, and every method including rip cleaning.
Here's this week's pictures.

Exaclty how mine looks. I'm starting a refugium soon to combat the algae ever thought of that?

 

[cdemoss01]

This algae just keeps coming back. It spreads and spreads. I feel like I've tried everything. Lowered the lights, just blues and UV channels.
In January I rip cleaned the whole tank and all the rocks. Replaced all the sand with new sand I rinsed out fit 8 hrs, lol.
Lowered n03 and p04 to 14 and .04.
I've tried every snails, hermit crab, emerald crab, urchins, and sea hares. I'm going broke. Lol. I'm buying them by the dozens every few months. I bought a small yellow tang, saltwater mollies. Nothing eats it.
So I'm thinking bryopsis. I've probably done 7 doses of fluconazole within the last year. I just finished up a single dose for 21 days or so and then hit it with a double dose for another 27 days. Didn't faze it.
I go in twice a week pulling. Once a week with a nylon brush and siphon hose going to a filter sock in the sump. I scrub and siphon meticulous. 2 or 3 hours while siphoning a d blowing off all time rocks. The tank looks good for a few days but of I go out of town for a few days it looks like this.
Should I just pull the corals and put them in spare tanks while break the tank down and bleach the rocks? Or should I just keep what I'm doing and pull time rocks out every few months and rip clean the tank? I feel like I'll waste more effort trying to control it then if I were to just restart. I have extra tanks around to put the livestock in while I restart.
What is this stuff?

What's your current filtration?

 

[cdemoss01]

I don’t see a need for rip clean as we’ve been here with the various uglies
With a little patience, you’re going to pull through
Start with the pain of manual removal by hand. Sounds useless but it’s an effective first step
To follow, reduce white intensity for a week or turn off white for 5 days
Utilize a protein skimmer for removal of organics
Remove rock and scrub in lieu of tearing down the tank and starting over and going through ugly phases and cycle again
Then add snails such as astrea-turbo- nerite-cerith and fighting conch plus a pencil urchin or two
Is this tank by chance at or near a window?
Do you use any tap water even for top-off?

Is it true that bioballs are nitrate factories?

 

[Pvtgloss]

If you have established tank, lot of corals and fish you can have low PO4.

The tank is over 2 years old. im gun shy about putting new corals in. They just get smothered. I've lost Cyphastreas, favities, trumpets, and montis. Today I have to pull out an acan and tort that lost the battle. I do have a stylocoeniella coming in that I'm going to try out.
I have a bottle of bacto-balance. I'll try it out.
I did FM Soft pellets for a while. The clownfish one.

 

[Pvtgloss]

Exaclty how mine looks. I'm starting a refugium soon to combat the algae ever thought of that?

Yeah, I tried it twice. The first time it went awesome. Beautiful and large amounts of red Gracilaria. Then somehow the algae got introduced. After that it just over ran the fuge and I had massive amounts of algae on my macro. The macro turned white and I had to pull the sump out and scrub the walls down.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is it true that bioballs are nitrate factories?

No and hold bacteria however after a long period you want to reduce buildup on them to allow new bacteria to cling to them.

 

[907_Reefer]

I run a $14 electric toothbrush on my GHA in 5 gal increments during WC, when needed (55g tank). Run the siphon through a filter sock, pump back in from the bucket and you can run all day. Kinda fun too..