Siamese Sump Setup

exarkun1178 · Mar 21, 2016

Hi All,

I am planning for my new tank. A lot of the reading I have been doing speaks to building redundancy into the design. On this idea of redundancy i have it in my head to have a Siamese sump design. Two identical sumps, two pumps, two skimmers, two sets of heaters etc.... See image attached.

I have been searching for duel sumps and Siamese sumps but have been unsuccessful finding a similar setup. The duel setups I have seem have one sump flowing into another sump in series, rather then parallel.

Other readings I have read is about balancing the flow between the two tanks should one pump fail or should one pump move faster then the other. To address this I added two cross overs, one in the pump return chamber, and one in the skimmer chamber.

I feel like this will allow for equipment to operate well within its operational ranges. Also it will allow me to have down sized equipment.

Thoughts?

exarkun1178 · Mar 21, 2016

With all the activity on the site id expect feedback. Guess it's not a popular setup.

Going to see about finding the right sumps in the morning.

thenanoreef · Mar 21, 2016

How large is the DT? Also, twice the sumps, twice the equipment, twice the cost, twice the things that could go wrong.

Pdandy · Mar 21, 2016

I run dual 40 breeders on my tank. Two return pumps and one skimmer. My pump sections are connect by a 2" pipe to keep the water level equal in each.

thenanoreef · Mar 21, 2016

It does seem that @Pdandy has two sumps, but for different filtration processes. Maybe this is something to look into

Pdandy · Mar 21, 2016

I don't see the reason for two skimmers. One skimmer that is properly sized for the system should be enough. My sump with the skimmer also has a 20 gallon refugium. The other sump holds four filter socks and my heater and has plenty of room to add additional filtration.

thenanoreef · Mar 21, 2016

@Pdandy May I ask how tall your stand is? The pics make it seem a little short with those sumps. Have you run into any issues as far as headroom goes?

traumajeff · Mar 21, 2016

Excuse the wires... I just set this tank up. The sump on the left is mechanical... skimmer, media reactors, etc. The sump on the right is a fuge.

I just ran nylon tubing between the two and they hold a good balance. I've run this on my previous tank also.

Pdandy · Mar 21, 2016

I believe it is 28" tall. If I had to raise my skimmer any higher (it's on a 2" stand now) I wouldn't have been able to get the cup off. The tank is in our waiting area at work and I wanted it lower for kids to be able to see in.

exarkun1178 · Mar 21, 2016

Hi. Thanks for the replies. I understand one skimmer will do. My reading reveals that a lot of reefers build in redundancy. Wouldn't two of everything support this?

I think about my boat, two engines allows me piece of mind when I steam out 75 miles. Two engines allows me to run both engines at lower rpm extending the life of both. Can the same be said for skimmers, heaters, pumps and other equipment ?

The tank is a 144"w x 18" t x 14" d. About 160 gallons.

Fin · Mar 21, 2016

I would think they would need to be connected, like the one shown above, to insure they maintain the same water level. If you want redundancy with one large sump, maybe plan on two separate return pumps. I am considering doing that on my new build, since I have had a return go out on me before. That would allow you more room for a lager skimmer, reactors and a bigger refugium. No need to have two skimmers.

thenanoreef · Mar 21, 2016

Nothing says you can't build in redundancy to one sump. Not saying this is a good idea or not. Just trying to play devils advocate, you know.

traumajeff · Mar 22, 2016

exarkun1178 said:
Hi. Thanks for the replies. I understand one skimmer will do. My reading reveals that a lot of reefers build in redundancy. Wouldn't two of everything support this?

I think about my boat, two engines allows me piece of mind when I steam out 75 miles. Two engines allows me to run both engines at lower rpm extending the life of both. Can the same be said for skimmers, heaters, pumps and other equipment ?

The tank is a 144"w x 18" t x 14" d. About 160 gallons.

It's not visible in my pic, but I run 2 returns... one in each of the sumps. I also run a heater in each. I'm definitely a believer in redundancy.

As for the skimmer... my redundancy came from size. I have a 240g tank and the skimmer is rated for 395-500g. IMHO adding 2 of these would have been unnecessary overkill. If you have one that is overrated for your setup, you should be good with one.

exarkun1178 · Mar 22, 2016

I am going to price out the dumps. Figure that's the next most important part. Thanks for the feed back.

Mwells · Mar 22, 2016

If you do run two skimmers you could have one wet skim and the other dry skim. If you can afford two of everything then you should go for, just be sure to do a build thread so the rest of us can follow along. Who knows, you might change the way everyone thinks about sumps..

hart24601 · Mar 22, 2016

I think that by having two of everything it is going to reduce efficiency of just having 1 larger. Such as skimmers. You are also greatly adding to the complexity of the system. I would say for redundancy buy some cheap spare equipment if you are worried or put that $$ in a saving account for emergencys - like overnighting equipment if need be. Tanks can be ok for a couple days without skimmers and such. A cheap heater in reserve and a cheap emergency return pump you can quick swap in can keep the tank going fine while you order a nice replacement - then you are saving wear and tear on the redundant equipment. Most nice equipment should last years if not decades, so not a huge concern to most.

Apex is a great backup system. Can text or email of anything fails or parameters drift and let you know. Or fishbit.

CodyRVA · Mar 22, 2016

I understand the redundancy part, but I've come across a lot of issues from various systems and whether it be your heater, skimmer, or pump... each has a short term, cheap fix, option from a LFS, Petco, Petsmart, or at the very least the short time it would take to order a replacement from BRS, MarineDepot, etc. I think the inline twin sump idea is cool at first glance, but why not just use one large sump? The only reason I can imagine running two sumps would be to maximize water volume. If I didn't have enough room under my stand i'd just plumb to an external sump; so in turn, two sumps. It just becomes convoluted, you'd need more modules for your controllers, more plumbing, and simply more risk. Not sure the cost is worth the reward on this one?

hart24601 · Mar 22, 2016

I have plumbed two sumps together, not for redundancy but because it's what I had and I wanted a big sump! Sill just 1 set of equipment though. Lol. Aside from physical limitations I think you creating more headaches for yourself. It's nice to think everything will be equal, but I doubt it will go that smoothly.

lefkonj · Mar 22, 2016

I would think that for a 160 two sumps is somewhat of overkill. I would imagine a nice sized sump with two return pumps and the appropriate skimmer would be perfect.

Having said that if you were going to say a 400gallon system I can see it as you would have 2 skimmers that could handle more than half the load on their own and provide you with redundancy.

Pdandy · Mar 22, 2016

I went with two sumps simply because I did not think one 40 gallon sump was enough on my 265 gallon tank. I could not fit one bigger sump under my stand so I connected two smaller ones.