Sicce Return Pump Size 2.0, 3.0, or 3.5?

[drawman]

My return pump has been starting to act up this weekend so I'm going to put a rush order on a Sicce Syncra for my 30 gallon tank. I'm thinking I would want to go with a Sicce Syncra 3.0 but would like confirmation on that.

As far as head pressure I have 3 90 degree elbows, about 4 feet of vertical pipe, 1-2 feet of horizontal pipe, and 2 unions which calculated head pressure to about 7.5. Max head on the Syncra 2.0 is 6.5' so that rules that one out and Max head on the Syncra 3.0 is 9.9'...at 7' I'm looking at 502 GPH if the flow chart is correct. That would put me at about 16-17x or less turnover per hour.

Thoughts on the 3.0 for this tank?

 

[Brew12]

My return pump has been starting to act up this weekend so I'm going to put a rush order on a Sicce Syncra for my 30 gallon tank. I'm thinking I would want to go with a Sicce Syncra 3.0 but would like confirmation on that.

As far as head pressure I have 3 90 degree elbows, about 4 feet of vertical pipe, 1-2 feet of horizontal pipe, and 2 unions which calculated head pressure to about 7.5. Max head on the Syncra 2.0 is 6.5' so that rules that one out and Max head on the Syncra 3.0 is 9.9'...at 7' I'm looking at 502 GPH if the flow chart is correct. That would put me at about 16-17x or less turnover per hour.

Thoughts on the 3.0 for this tank?

I think 5x turnover is a nice place to be. I know some people prefer up to 10x and others think anything over 3x is too much.

Do you know what you have right now as far as flow?

 

[drawman]

I think 5x turnover is a nice place to be. I know some people prefer up to 10x and others think anything over 3x is too much.

Do you know what you have right now as far as flow?

Honestly I don't at the moment. I'm running a Speedwave DC Return pump and I'm out of town so I can't even tell you which model it is. All I know is I'm on level 2 with it. It stopped rotating on Friday so I gave it a quick clean assuming that the impeller got stuck and I got it to run again. A family member called me and let me know it stopped again tonight but I was able to restart it through apex. Even if this is a fluke it will be nice to have a much needed backup on hand!

I would love to have 10x turnover in this tank but with this brand that's probably not achievable...

Also FWIW my drain is a durso.

 

[NanaReefer]

What type of overflow you using? Certain ones can only handle so many gph.

 

[drawman]

What type of overflow you using? Certain ones can only handle so many gph.

Durso or a variant at least.

 

[mcarroll]

As far as head pressure I have 3 90 degree elbows, about 4 feet of vertical pipe, 1-2 feet of horizontal pipe, and 2 unions

What diameter plumbing?

 

[drawman]

What diameter plumbing?

I want to say 3/4" but it may be 1". I can check tonight when I get home.

 

[mcarroll]

Already had this drafted...

Assuming you have a stereotypical 3/4" PVC return line, with the mentioned fittings, it looks like this:

30 gallons of display requires between [30 • 2 = ] 60GPH and [30 • 4 =] 120GPH.

This will keep your skimmer and reactors fed, etc. Good.

Maybe you want to be conservative and shoot for 5x, which would be [30 • 5 =] 150GPH.

Shouldn't be necessary, but 5x is not usually enough to be a problem or too big a waste. But more than 5x is usually a considerable waste of power vs a "right sized" pump, and for almost no additional benefit.

We'll go with 4x for the sake of example, which is 120GPH, or two gallons per minute.

We'll assume 6' of plumbing.

 

[mcarroll]

There appears to be no significant head loss at this flow rate. (Even at 1/2" plumbing, it would only at .5' onto your vertical head loss.)

Liquid Friction Pressure Loss
Pressure Loss (psi): 0.07 Head Loss (ft): 0.1
Line Number:
Date: 12/18/2016
Nominal Pipe Size: 0.75
Pipe Schedule: SCH 40
Flow Rate (gpm): 2
Viscosity (cP): 1
Specific Gravity (water=1): 1.025
Temperature (F): 79
Pipe Roughness (ft): 0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.): 0.824
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec): 1.2
Reynolds Number: 7868
Flow Region: Turbulent
Friction Factor: 0.033
Overall K: 6.57
Piping Length (ft): 6
Short Radius Elbows: 4
Pipe Entrance: 1
Pipe Exit : 1
Misc. K value #1 : 0.16

(The Misc K at the bottom is what I found for four union fittings...not too significant even if it's wrong.)

 

[mcarroll]

That means your punp is going to be up against your 4 vertical feet of plumbing + 0.1' feet for friction losses to the horizontal runs + fittings + etc.

So really, for looking at a chart, that's just 4 ft of head pressure.

 

[mcarroll]

Forgot to post this with the results...
(Results from here: http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm)

 

[Brew12]

30 gallons of display requires between [30 • 2 = ] 60GPH and [30 • 4 =] 120GPH.

This will keep your skimmer and reactors fed, etc. Good.

Maybe you want to be conservative and shoot for 5x, which would be [30 • 5 =] 150GPH.

Shouldn't be necessary, but 5x is not usually enough to be a problem or too big a waste. But more than 5x is usually a considerable waste of power vs a "right sized" pump, and for almost no additional benefit.

I would add that sumps tend to get very noisy once you start getting up to 10x flow unless your sump is very oversized for your tank.

 

[drawman]

That means your punp is going to be up against your 4 vertical feet of plumbing + 0.1' feet for friction losses to the horizontal runs + fittings + etc.

So really, for looking at a chart, that's just 4 ft of head pressure.

I'm confused isn't each 90 degree elbow equal to a foot of head pressure?

 

[Brew12]

I'm confused isn't each 90 degree elbow equal to a foot of head pressure?

That is a common thumb rule but in reality is it less than that. Much better to use a calculator imo.

 

[mcarroll]

Looks like a Syncra 1.0 or 1.5 is all you should need.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm confused isn't each 90 degree elbow equal to a foot of head pressure?

That is a common thumb rule but in reality is it less than that. Much better to use a calculator imo.

It depends heavily on other factors – in your case that mainly seems to be the flow rate. 120GPH just isn't that much, so a large pump and large-diameter plumbing just aren't going to be required.

 

[skim]

Turnover rate is something totally different they tank flow. Turn over should be around 3 times, you want to give time for your skimmer and reactors. Some like a 1 time turnover, I think I will try that some time but I have a Sicce 3.0 dialed back, 1 notch open I figure high 2's low 3's. If it was me I would be looking at 1.0 or 1.5, do not under estimate the power of the Sicce pumps. I seen a Video where BRS was speaking with Sicce and Sicce admitted they underrate their pumps. I was shocked at the power of the 3.0, I was running a Jebao DC 6000, they may have good flow and quiet but add a little back pressure and it drops like a rock. In the end that 3.0 on full was pushing what the 6000 was on full and the 6000 is suppose to do just over 1100 gal/h add the back pressure and boom. Hope this be of some help.

 

[mcarroll]

And how did nobody mention this since Interzoo so I have to run into it on Sicce's website???

Download Syncra SDC Connectivity Ideas (Brochure)

 

[mcarroll]

I'm confused isn't each 90 degree elbow equal to a foot of head pressure?

As @Brew12 said, using calculator is the way to go.

But you can look up the "K values" yourself and compute your head-loss manually using tables like this:
http://www.metropumps.com/ResourcesFrictionLossData.pdf

I've never done that myself.

 

[nervousmonkey]

And how did nobody mention this since Interzoo so I have to run into it on Sicce's website???

No kidding, what? When did that come out? Interzoo and no one knows about this yet? I want to buy one just to try it out, but don't need any more Syncras, even if this one is DC with wireless connectivity, a new dial, ability to have a range of Syncras all in one package... Wait, I do need this!

Good point @skim makes re: the power of the Syncra pumps. Those things push a LOT of water. @drawman , make sure you take this into account. I have a 3.0 I use for water changes, and I can use a 3/4" nylon braided tubing that can pull so much water out, then flip it, and push so much new water back in, that I would be hesitant to use a 3.0 on a 30 gallon. I like high turnover tanks, I prefer a 10x turnover if the tank is set up for it and I want that much turnover, sump and skimmer can handle it, but frankly, my tanks have always been fine at 3X, provided I use powerheads in the tank for circulation. No need for higher turnover unless you are using the return for circulation as well.

Anyway, back to Q&A, I'd go with the DC option that Matt found, next up I'd go with the 2.0. That pump is a powerful pump and you'll still find yourself dialing that one down too I would bet.

Great find Matt!