Sicce Return Pump Size 2.0, 3.0, or 3.5?

[drawman]

That is a common thumb rule but in reality is it less than that. Much better to use a calculator imo.

Yeah maybe I was using an inaccurate calculator? I used the one on "the other forum" but it uses the idea that each 90 degree elbow is equal to a foot of head and looks to be a very watered down version of what you and mcarroll are using as a calculator. It's funny I've only ran DC pumps on my tanks so I've never really had to accurately size an AC pump...don't want to screw this one up so I appreciate the help!

Looks like a Syncra 1.0 or 1.5 is all you should need.

I was using this spec chart for my reference too in addition to the one you posted. I guess the max head scared me off of the smaller pumps (ie 1.0-2.0) as well as the significant drop in flow past 5' of head. I was of course assuming I was around 7.5' of head. Again I've always ran DC returns so this is new territory for me...

It depends heavily on other factors – in your case that mainly seems to be the flow rate. 120GPH just isn't that much, so a large pump and large-diameter plumbing just aren't going to be required.

So if the flow rate was significantly higher per size of plumbing this would come more into play? Good to know and makes sense.

Turnover rate is something totally different they tank flow. Turn over should be around 3 times, you want to give time for your skimmer and reactors. Some like a 1 time turnover, I think I will try that some time but I have a Sicce 3.0 dialed back, 1 notch open I figure high 2's low 3's. If it was me I would be looking at 1.0 or 1.5, do not under estimate the power of the Sicce pumps. I seen a Video where BRS was speaking with Sicce and Sicce admitted they underrate their pumps. I was shocked at the power of the 3.0, I was running a Jebao DC 6000, they may have good flow and quiet but add a little back pressure and it drops like a rock. In the end that 3.0 on full was pushing what the 6000 was on full and the 6000 is suppose to do just over 1100 gal/h add the back pressure and boom. Hope this be of some help.

Tank flow is good I have an MP10W that is mixing things up nicely so no worries there. What size tank are you running the 3.0 on?

As @Brew12 said, using calculator is the way to go.

But you can look up the "K values" yourself and compute your head-loss manually using tables like this:
http://www.metropumps.com/ResourcesFrictionLossData.pdf

I've never done that myself.

Yeah I guess the calculator I was using was very simplistic and used the idea that every 90 degree fitting would equal one foot of head. I guess I could go with the 1.5 for my own peace of mind knowing that I have some wiggle room with max head.

 

[mcarroll]

The 2.0 is probably more overkill that would be justified, at least IMO.

Also, I wasn't actually recomending the DC pump – doubt they'll be on the market right away; watch the vid on the Sicce page – just a "WHOA HEY THERE!" moment.

 

[drawman]

The 2.0 is probably more overkill that would be justified, at least IMO.

Also, I wasn't actually recomending the DC pump – doubt they'll be on the market right away; watch the vid on the Sicce page – just a "WHOA HEY THERE!" moment.

Well I appreciate the input. I'm leaning towards starting with the 1.5 and worst case if I don't like it then I can always keep it on hand as a much needed backup.

I recently bought a Sicce 3.5 as a backup for my 60 gallon now I'm thinking I went overboard on that one.

 

[nervousmonkey]

Yeah, the other forum has some old school rules still baked into their tought processes, like the need for a super powerful return pump, but that was before we had really good circulation pumps like the MP's from Ecotech, etc.

The 2.0 is probably more overkill that would be justified, at least IMO.

Also, I wasn't actually recommending the DC pump – doubt they'll be on the market right away; watch the vid on the Sicce page – just a "WHOA HEY THERE!" moment.

Yeah, the 2.0 is overkill, a lot of it, but figured that drawman wanted some extra turnover. Sounds like he'll go with your advice Matt. So no 2.0 in store. That would make the sandbed a sand storm in the tank.
Didn't pay attention to the fact that the DC pump isn't out yet, but either way, it looks like it provides much more functionality than other DC pumps, which is why I would recommend the Sicce DC. Technically, I prefer a good ol AC pump for a return, since no one would vary the speed of the return flow. Only reason I would recommend a DC pump for return pump is if it had smarter functions added, e.g. wifi connectivity/monitoring or the Vectra series ability to keep the minimum amount of water flowing on the Feed setting so tank doesn't drain down and kill suction in an overflow that needs suction lines to operate.
@drawman , you have some great advice here from everyone. Have fun with your first AC return pump!

 

[mcarroll]

Just estimating your requirement purely based on head height and the use of a manufacturer flow curve is sufficient to select a pump in many cases. Maybe even most cases.

Usually the only time you really, really need a calculator is for exceptions where you might have a really long run, or lots of fittings or extraordinarily high flow rates, etc.

(But how do you know any of that that starting out, right?)

I think people routinely oversize their AC pumps so much (causing increased up-front AND operating costs) that it serves as about half of the marketing effort for the "DC pump cause".

Sicce's guide on Choosing A Pump is very good.

Even their video (mentioned already) on their pump page is really good:
http://sicceus.com/aquarium.html

 

[mcarroll]

Tank flow is good I have an MP10W that is mixing things up nicely so no worries there.

Just the same, start planning your upgrade now. I think the mp10 may be Ecotech's best pump, but it's best in a small space. Tanks ≤18" on a side at max., IMO.

If your tank is a standard 30 Long, that means at least two mp10's across the back.

If your tank is a 20" cube, then the mp10 is really at its limits and the "far-half" of the tank will be more and more under-served as corals grow in. A second mp10 (or some other pump; maybe a Turbelle® nanostream® 6040) on one of the other sides to fill will eventually be needed.

But don't take my word for it:
VorTech Flow Calculator

A single unit is good, but "low flow".

 

[jamesbog283]

I have a 30 gallon tank also with an eshopps 300gph hob overflow into a 20 gal sump @4.5' of plumbing 6 45 deg fittings on the overflow with 1 union, 1 ball valve 3 90's , 1 union an 2 45's on the return with a sicce 3.0 return pump. I've got it dialled all the way down and the ball valve almost completely open. Seems to work great. FWIW This is my first setup though and have nothing to compare to.

 

[drawman]

Just the same, start planning your upgrade now. I think the mp10 may be Ecotech's best pump, but it's best in a small space. Tanks ≤18" on a side at max., IMO.

If your tank is a standard 30 Long, that means at least two mp10's across the back.

If your tank is a 20" cube, then the mp10 is really at its limits and the "far-half" of the tank will be more and more under-served as corals grow in. A second mp10 (or some other pump; maybe a Turbelle® nanostream® 6040) on one of the other sides to fill will eventually be needed.

But don't take my word for it:
VorTech Flow Calculator

A single unit is good, but "low flow".

Already ahead of you . I have a second MP10w essentially in storage that is not being used that I may eventually employ as things grow out. This tank actually has no rock and uses Siporax as filtration so there is very little to impede the flow of the Vortech at the moment.

 

[oceanslide]

I have a 55 gallon tank, running the syncra 3.0 with a little over 4ft of plumbing to the return and I have to dial it down. So a 3.0 might be overkill for yours. Although you could get the 3 and use a valve to dial it down a lot in case you plan to upgrade anytime soon!

 

[peder]

And how did nobody mention this since Interzoo so I have to run into it on Sicce's website???

Download Syncra SDC Connectivity Ideas (Brochure)

They Will be out in the spring 2017

 

[NanaReefer]

They Will be out in the spring 2017

Probably why it wasn't mentioned as it's not available yet.

 

[drawman]

I have a 55 gallon tank, running the syncra 3.0 with a little over 4ft of plumbing to the return and I have to dial it down. So a 3.0 might be overkill for yours. Although you could get the 3 and use a valve to dial it down a lot in case you plan to upgrade anytime soon!

How much can you dial them down any idea? Is there a feature to reduce the flow on them?

 

[mcarroll]

It's like any other pump, so you can use a valve to throttle it, but it's not going to make a huge difference to power usage if the pump is massively oversized.

 

[NanaReefer]

I ran the Sicce 2.0 on my 40B/20L sump. 3' straight up/down with one lil elbow going into the tank. Worked perfectly.

 

[drawman]

Just finally hooked up the 1.5 and it is spot on for flow rate for anyone else in the same position. I can say I believe the 2.0 would've been too much for this application. Thanks for the help!

 

[oceanslide]

Glad it worked out!

 

[drawman]

So now that I have everything set on my 30 gallon it has been in the back of my mind to swap out my DC pump and redo the plumbing on my 60 gallon. Like I said before I bought a Sicce 3.5 as a backup and I'm thinking of hooking it up as my primary in place of the DC pump. I also want to go with a herbie style drain instead of my durso and have my return plumbing run over the top (it is a rimless tank but still shouldn't show much where the aquarium is).

Now if I'm assuming slightly over 4' of head on this tank then I would calculate the flow rate to be about 570gph give or take giving me about 9.5x turnover. Honestly I probably could've gone with the 2.0 pump on this tank which would give me about 340gph or 5.7x turnover given the same 4' of head. I bought it during BRS Black Friday but I may try to return it for the smaller pump but we will see.

If I stick with the Sicce 3.5, have about 570gph, and use 1" PVC plumbing.
1. How much flow can a 1" PVC Herbie Emergency Drain handle? My main, emergency, and return lines would all be 1" PVC in this situation. I thought I saw on a chart that it could handle 960gph but I'm not sure if I was reading the chart correctly or if it would pertain to this situation.

2. Anyone know if I can hard plumb this pump and what type of fitting it would need (ie NPT, etc.)?

3. Sounds like the 2.0 might be a better fit seeing that the 3.0 and 3.5 both provide similar flow rates at 4' of head. Thoughts?

 

[drawman]

@mcarroll thoughts?

 

[mcarroll]

I think we worked out that the 2.0 would be a pretty good fit already.(..maybe even the 1.5, if I recall correctly).

If the 3.5 was for a backup, then I'd keep it as a backup and get the "correct" size you really need here.

If you aren't going to use it as backup for the other system and you still have all the packaging, I'd at least consider returning it for the correct size return pump for this system.

 

[drawman]

I think we worked out that the 2.0 would be a pretty good fit already.(..maybe even the 1.5, if I recall correctly).

If the 3.5 was for a backup, then I'd keep it as a backup and get the "correct" size you really need here.

If you aren't going to use it as backup for the other system and you still have all the packaging, I'd at least consider returning it for the correct size return pump for this system.

Thanks as always I appreciate your input. My plan is exactly that and nice thing is the Sicce 2.0 is on sale for a great price on aquacave right now! Never opened up the 3.5 so if I can't return it I should be able to resell it without much of a loss.