Sick Copperband Butterflyfish

isacr · Mar 1, 2022

Hello everyone,

I have been a longtime lurker of this forum, and this is my first post.

I ordered a Copperband Butterfly from an online vendor and it came in this morning. While inspecting it, I noticed that its dorsal fin was a little ragged along with its tail fin. It also has a cloudy eye that is bulging a little bit.

1) I put him into my quarantine tank, but know butterflies benefit from good water quality, which would be better in my DT. Should I move him there?

2) Should I start medications? Which ones should I get? How long of a timeframe do I have?

3) What is the procedure in regards to dealing with the vendor? He sold me a sick fish...

Thank you everyone in advance.

PS - I know this topic has been discussed, but the suggested medications don't seem to be available anywhere/readily.

isacr · Mar 1, 2022

Does anyone have any thoughts?

isacr · Mar 1, 2022

After doing some research I have the following options.

I can get MetroPlex + KanaPlex tomorrow, or I can get and start Erythromyzin tonight.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to which will be more effective?

ReefHog · Mar 1, 2022

A picture under white light would help diagnose. I wouldn’t put him in the DT. Cloudy bulging eye could be infection. Erythromycin is abx of choice for eye infections. I’m not sure if flukes are common in CBBs but they cause cloudy bulging eyes also. Freshwater dip for that. Not sure how well butterflies handle that. Is he eating? Usually the hardest obstacle with CBBs is getting them eating.

isacr · Mar 1, 2022

I haven't tried feeding him just yet, as he is new. He has supposedly been eating frozen Mysis, and doesn't look thin at all. Would flukes cause the fin issues? He is swimming about the QT.

ReefHog · Mar 1, 2022

I wouldn’t think so but could be that he just had a rough time last several days. I’d try feeding him. Remove what he doesn’t eat. They can be very picky when it comes to food. If mysis doesn’t work, you can slice this slices of clam with razor and try that. Of live blackworms if available. Keep him full to help fight this.

Jay Hemdal · Mar 1, 2022

isacr said:
I haven't tried feeding him just yet, as he is new. He has supposedly been eating frozen Mysis, and doesn't look thin at all. Would flukes cause the fin issues? He is swimming about the QT.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The more info we can get, the better. Try feeding it, and getting a short video. This post gives information about other important-to-know information about your tank:

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

isacr · Mar 1, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The more info we can get, the better. Try feeding it, and getting a short video. This post gives information about other important-to-know information about your tank:

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Hey Jay,

It didn’t take the food. Here is a video, take note of the eye and tail. Please let me know if it’s not clear enough.
Thank you!

Jay Hemdal · Mar 2, 2022

isacr said:
Hey Jay,

It didn’t take the food. Here is a video, take note of the eye and tail. Please let me know if it’s not clear enough.
Thank you!

Well, as you may know copperbands are VERY delicate. This one seems to have three injuries - the chunk taken out of its caudal fin and the eye injury. Both have excess mucus, or could be infected with bacteria. It is also breathing a bit fast, but I can't tell if that is just a function of you being close by and filming it. Then, there are two bite marks out of the trailing dorsal fin that don't seem infected. You should ask the vendor what other fish was this one housed with that caused those bites?

The fish not eating is a bad sign. The above mentioned injuries are not likely the cause of it not eating. There is evidently some other issue - water quality problem, ammonia damage from shipping, or a gill disease. You need to rule out water quality issues first. Any treatments you start will take 5 to 30 days, and this fish just isn't going to survive that amount of time without eating.

Jay

isacr · Mar 2, 2022

I’ll try feeding it again, and see what happens. Please see the two pictures below. One is a clearer picture of its eye, and the second is a white abscess looking spot near its fin.

Unitylover · Mar 2, 2022

@vetteguy53081

vetteguy53081 · Mar 2, 2022

This is likely a rub or even light injury when it was netted for packing
A fish like this, I don’t expect to be eating the first 1-3 days especially in a bare tank
Masstick and LRS herbivore diet are the best entices I know of for these fish. Live brine would also work well
As for remedies. OP is working with Jay Hemdal and I tend to sit out in respect unless called upon

kingjoe · Mar 2, 2022

isacr said:
Hello everyone,

I have been a longtime lurker of this forum, and this is my first post.

I ordered a Copperband Butterfly from an online vendor and it came in this morning. While inspecting it, I noticed that its dorsal fin was a little ragged along with its tail fin. It also has a cloudy eye that is bulging a little bit.

1) I put him into my quarantine tank, but know butterflies benefit from good water quality, which would be better in my DT. Should I move him there?

2) Should I start medications? Which ones should I get? How long of a timeframe do I have?

3) What is the procedure in regards to dealing with the vendor? He sold me a sick fish...

Thank you everyone in advance.

PS - I know this topic has been discussed, but the suggested medications don't seem to be available anywhere/readily.

As far as feeding goes, try a fresh mollusc. Oyster, clam, or mussel. That's usually my go-to for all my new fish, particularly butterflies. Just open it up and drop it in the tank, but beware that oysters will cloud the water. Recently, I've had a copperband and a pearlscale with issues very similar to yours, and I've had success medicating with General Cure, which is a metronidazole/praziquantel combo. I had initially treated both fish with Kanaplex for septicemia. They are still in QT, but are faring much better; I'm continuing with the daily clam/oyster feeding regimen. The copperband will likely go to the main tank in a week or so.
Another thing to consider is QT set up. I have one tank for fish, another for corals/inverts. Typically, every butterfly I buy needs to be medicated for one thing or another. As soon as possible after treatment in the fish QT, I move them to the coral QT, which is essentially a mature reef tank in its own right, with live rock, populations of copepods, amphipods, etc. This seems to aid greatly in their recovery.

isacr · Mar 2, 2022

kingjoe said:
As far as feeding goes, try a fresh mollusc. Oyster, clam, or mussel. That's usually my go-to for all my new fish, particularly butterflies. Just open it up and drop it in the tank, but beware that oysters will cloud the water. Recently, I've had a copperband and a pearlscale with issues very similar to yours, and I've had success medicating with General Cure, which is a metronidazole/praziquantel combo. I had initially treated both fish with Kanaplex for septicemia. They are still in QT, but are faring much better; I'm continuing with the daily clam/oyster feeding regimen. The copperband will likely go to the main tank in a week or so.
Another thing to consider is QT set up. I have one tank for fish, another for corals/inverts. Typically, every butterfly I buy needs to be medicated for one thing or another. As soon as possible after treatment in the fish QT, I move them to the coral QT, which is essentially a mature reef tank in its own right, with live rock, populations of copepods, amphipods, etc. This seems to aid greatly in their recovery.

I will try feeding it clams and see how it does. I can also try hatching some brine shrimp, and see if it likes that. You would recommend General Cure over a MetroPlex and KanaPlex mix?

kingjoe · Mar 2, 2022

isacr said:
I will try feeding it clams and see how it does. I can also try hatching some brine shrimp, and see if it likes that. You would recommend General Cure over a MetroPlex and KanaPlex mix?

Hard to say, honestly. Based on my recent experiences, I'd try General Cure, which gives the advantage of combining an antibiotic with an anti-fluke/tapeworm medication. Don't forget to remove any carbon or adsorbent resins from your filter and turn off any UV sterilizers or skimmers you might be running. I'd also stress the importance of water changes between bouts of medication. Your copperband doubtless feels like dirt right now, and clean water will enhance the efficacy of the medicines. Think of what happens when you are feeling sick in a closed up house with stale air and then you open up all the doors and windows. So, if you dose this evening, do ~20-25% water change right before Friday evening's dose.
Brine shrimp is worth a try, along with live blackworms. Many aquarists have had success with Masstick, as well. But definitely try opening up a live clam for him.

isacr · Mar 2, 2022

After adding General Cure, I noticed a few white worms wiggling around on the bottom of the tank. (See the video below)

Does this confirm the fish has flukes? Should I clean them out of the tank? Anything else to medicate with?

Thank you all very much,
Isaac

Unitylover · Mar 3, 2022

might be parasites @Jay Hemdal

kingjoe · Mar 3, 2022

isacr said:
After adding General Cure, I noticed a few white worms wiggling around on the bottom of the tank. (See the video below)

Does this confirm the fish has flukes? Should I clean them out of the tank? Anything else to medicate with?

Thank you all very much,
Isaac

They do look like flukes, though I'm not certain- whatever they are, I'd siphon them out. Unless your copperband has a sudden issue with cryptocaryon or some other serious health condition, I would continue with just the General Cure. Make sure you complete the treatment protocol. Has he eaten yet? Is he still gilling rapidly?

Jay Hemdal · Mar 3, 2022

isacr said:
After adding General Cure, I noticed a few white worms wiggling around on the bottom of the tank. (See the video below)

Does this confirm the fish has flukes? Should I clean them out of the tank? Anything else to medicate with?

Thank you all very much,
Isaac

Those are Neobenedenia flukes. This species is difficult to eradicate because they lay sticky eggs that are not killed by any medications. You treat the fish, kill the adult flukes, then the eggs hatch out and reinfect the fish. Treating three times, nine days apart sometimes, but not always, breaks that life cycle.

I find that hyposalinity is more effective. A specific gravity of 1.012 to 35 days will work. You could also go to 1.009 for 30 days and eradicate the Neo as well as marine ich.

Jay

isacr · Mar 3, 2022

Sadly he didn't survive the night. He was breathing rather rapidly and seemingly near death by the time I noticed the flukes. This morning he was already gone. I want to thank everyone for their time, it was much appreciated. We tried.

Is it standard practice to send out sick fish? This is the first time I am ordering online, from a vendor who claims to have a quarantine/treatment process.