Skimmerless

czoolander · Jun 29, 2022

So noob question......

When I was researching 3 years before I got in the hobby everyone was saying skimmer was essential for the reef tank. So I purchased one.

Now not even 3 years later I am hearing skimmers are not necessary or some are saying useless. Others say useful and run them.

I run mine all day everyday and what I clean out of there is some pretty nasty stuff. Not sure why the hate for skimmers ? haha

I guess what I am trying to understand is why you would go "skimmerless" this would imply that somehow it is causing more harm to your tank then providing benefits? Are people saying that it is just stripping the tank of all nutrients and not just phos and nitrates . detritus and other things we want removed?

Just curious is all ......

livinlifeinBKK · Jun 29, 2022

They seem good for gas exchange but not sure if you really need or even want them pulling out the bacteria they remove that the corals can feed on

Seymo44 · Jun 29, 2022

None of my nanos or picos have a skimmer. My evo 13.5 is mostly montis with couple softies/LPS.

I put a skimmer on my 65 mixed reef and only run it a couple days a week. I honestly only run my skimmer just to justify owning it haha.

I’m very tempted to just turn my sump into a fuge and take the skimmer out completely. Gonna wait until the 2 year mark to make that decision though.

Seymo44 · Jun 29, 2022

czoolander said:
So noob question......

When I was researching 3 years before I got in the hobby everyone was saying skimmer was essential for the reef tank. So I purchased one.

Now not even 3 years later I am hearing skimmers are not necessary or some are saying useless. Others say useful and run them.

I run mine all day everyday and what I clean out of there is some pretty nasty stuff. Not sure why the hate for skimmers ? haha

I guess what I am trying to understand is why you would go "skimmerless" this would imply that somehow it is causing more harm to your tank then providing benefits? Are people saying that it is just stripping the tank of all nutrients and not just phos and nitrates . detritus and other things we want removed?

Just curious is all ......

I don’t think skimmers are harmful. However, mine is overpowered and does strip out too many nutrients. Most of the arguments I’ve seen are that refugiums are equally effective with the added benefit of boosted pod populations.

czoolander · Jun 29, 2022

Seymo44 said:
I don’t think skimmers are harmful. However, mine is overpowered and does strip out too many nutrients. Most of the arguments I’ve seen are that refugiums are equally effective with the added benefit of boosted pod populations.

Do they pull magnesium and calcium out of the water?

My levels have been high for months through dosing errors on my part . Trying to correct through water changes but they don't seem to be going lower. My skimmer runs 24/7 and I am just wondering if this is slowly pulling cal and mag or doesn't have any effect on those?

HBtank · Jun 29, 2022

It’s a tool in the kit. Mine has been off for a few weeks as I can’t get nitrates to register, even with heavy feeding,

It’s the first tool I personally would use to control nutrients.

\m/reefsnmetal\m/ · Jun 29, 2022

czoolander said:
Do they pull magnesium and calcium out of the water?

My levels have been high for months through dosing errors on my part . Trying to correct through water changes but they don't seem to be going lower. My skimmer runs 24/7 and I am just wondering if this is slowly pulling cal and mag or doesn't have any effect on those?

They only pull out cal/mag (probably a negligible amount) if you skim wet, but that's just from the water getting caught in the cup. This would also potentially lower salinity if you're really putting alot into the skimmer cup and topping off with RO. I would not rely on skimming as a method to correct high cal/mag.

czoolander · Jun 29, 2022

\m/reefsnmetal\m/ said:
They only pull out cal/mag (probably a negligible amount) if you skim wet, but that's just from the water getting caught in the cup. This would also potentially lower salinity if you're really putting alot into the skimmer cup and topping off with RO. I would not rely on skimming as a method to correct high cal/mag.

So then if they do not pull out calcium and magnesium why would they pull out trace elements from the water ?

I thought they were just removing proteins / waste but if they are removing nutrients from the water is there a reason that calcium and magnesium are unaffected from skimming ?

This hobby is very confusing sometimes and by sometimes I mean all the time haha

damsels are not mean · Jun 29, 2022

Never had one never will. Even in a tank with a closed lid I never experienced symptoms of poor gas exchange. House is old and not super well sealed so the air in here is not as full of CO2 as many newer and better built homes are. I struggle to keep nutrients up even in heavy stocking. Really not sure how some people can't keep them down!

HBtank · Jun 29, 2022

czoolander said:
So then if they do not pull out calcium and magnesium why would they pull out trace elements from the water ?

I thought they were just removing proteins / waste but if they are removing nutrients from the water is there a reason that calcium and magnesium are unaffected from skimming ?

This hobby is very confusing sometimes and by sometimes I mean all the time haha

They pull out larger organic “nutrients”, like you said, waste and proteins. and bacteria/debris before they breakdown to simpler forms of N/P.

I think the word nutrient is tricky here, calcium and magnesium (and other trace elements) are minerals that corals require, but they are not used in the same way. Skimmers don’t remove them other than simply removing water from the tank depending on how wet you skim; they don’t pull them out like waste and large organics.

czoolander · Jun 29, 2022

HBtank said:
They pull out larger organic “nutrients”, like you said, waste and proteins. and bacteria/debris before they breakdown to simpler forms of N/P.

I think the word nutrient is tricky here, calcium and magnesium (and other trace elements) are minerals that corals require, but they are not used in the same way. Skimmers don’t remove them other than simply removing water from the tank depending on how wet you skim; they don’t pull them out like waste and large organics.

So larger stocked coral tanks . The corals are pulling out the waste and proteins and Nitrate and Phosphate? to go skimmerless otherwise the skimmer is outcompeting the corals?

Whereas in my low coral stocked tank I require the skimmer?

Is there a point in your reef tank where you reach the point where you have enough coral that the skimmer is no longer required? Where you are having to dose nitrates and phosphate?

I am going down the rabbit hole again ......

Rmckoy · Jun 29, 2022

Not only oxygenation but what about the gunk it’s pulling .
If that gunk ( organics ) are left do they contribute to elevated nutrients or the need to increase nutrient export methods ?

I’ve always used a skimmer . But absolutely hate in sump or hang on skimmers
I’ve had both overflow and flood more times than I can count .

HBtank · Jun 29, 2022

czoolander said:
So larger stocked coral tanks . The corals are pulling out the waste and proteins and Nitrate and Phosphate? to go skimmerless otherwise the skimmer is outcompeting the corals?

Whereas in my low coral stocked tank I require the skimmer?

Is there a point in your reef tank where you reach the point where you have enough coral that the skimmer is no longer required? Where you are having to dose nitrates and phosphate?

I am going down the rabbit hole again ......

Never one answer, I personally have a pretty minimally stocked tank (coral) but it is 15 years old and the rock is hungry. Wether it is the rock itself (I guess really microbial populations), or the sponges, or other less obvious life, I can’t get Nitrates to register. I have 8 fish in there (80g), feed pretty heavily, dose aminos, and shut down my skimmer….. it won’t budge.

But yeah, I think if you are in a situation where you are dosing N/P, skimming makes less sense. But some people like the aeration and safety net it can provide for some surprise release of organics (is maybe some of it is toxic? Does stocking matter? another unknown), and are willing to feed enough to provide organic nutrients in more direct forms. Plus you never really see the flux of those organic nutrients on a test kit, just the residual of simpler forms of N/P.

Seems like there are a million ways to skin this cat based on budget and perspective!

iMi · Jun 29, 2022

czoolander said:
So noob question......

When I was researching 3 years before I got in the hobby everyone was saying skimmer was essential for the reef tank. So I purchased one.

Now not even 3 years later I am hearing skimmers are not necessary or some are saying useless. Others say useful and run them.

I run mine all day everyday and what I clean out of there is some pretty nasty stuff. Not sure why the hate for skimmers ? haha

I guess what I am trying to understand is why you would go "skimmerless" this would imply that somehow it is causing more harm to your tank then providing benefits? Are people saying that it is just stripping the tank of all nutrients and not just phos and nitrates . detritus and other things we want removed?

Just curious is all ......

It’s part of the arsenal. Use it as needed, I guess. Why go skimmerless? In my case, and judging from the comments in many cases, it’s the excessive nutrient stripping.

I kept hitting zero nitrates over and over and over again. Heavy feeding didn’t help. Only dosing them made a dent and even then it was unstable (I don’t use a doser, which I probably should…hmm). Interestingly enough, I’ve been watching PH and Alk and everything is stable, so I now have doubts about the whole gas exchange “benefit.” It is no doubt there, but I don’t think it’s as critical as people make it out to be…

Only time will tell. I’m sticking with skimmerless sump for the time being.

\m/reefsnmetal\m/ · Jun 30, 2022

czoolander said:
So then if they do not pull out calcium and magnesium why would they pull out trace elements from the water ?

I thought they were just removing proteins / waste but if they are removing nutrients from the water is there a reason that calcium and magnesium are unaffected from skimming ?

This hobby is very confusing sometimes and by sometimes I mean all the time haha

It depends on how you run your skimmer and what your skimmate looks like. The bubbles trap proteins and other organic crap that if left in the tank turn into nitrates and phosphates. If your skimmer cup is filling up with dense dark stuff that only needs emptied every few days to a week (dry skimming), then you're not really pulling a measurable amount of calcium, magnesium, alk, or trace elements; you are just pulling out the waste before it has a chance to degrade into nitrates and phosphates. If your skimmer cup is filling up with a lighter colored, less dense, watery junk (wet skimming) that has to be emptied everyday, it is the removal of that excess water that can affect salinity, cal, mag, etc as you top off with RO water.

czoolander said:
So larger stocked coral tanks . The corals are pulling out the waste and proteins and Nitrate and Phosphate? to go skimmerless otherwise the skimmer is outcompeting the corals?

Whereas in my low coral stocked tank I require the skimmer?

Is there a point in your reef tank where you reach the point where you have enough coral that the skimmer is no longer required? Where you are having to dose nitrates and phosphate?

I am going down the rabbit hole again ......

Here's the deal with filtration and competition for nutrients... If you have fish in the tank that you feed regularly, you are likely adding more N/P than the corals can consume which is why it accumulates so quickly in our small systems. The process of maturing a young reef tank is a constant balancing act of how much N/P you put into the tank, how much is used by the corals, and how much is removed via the myriad of filtration options including skimming. Say you have a 6 month old tank with some small colonies, a refugium, and a skimmer. At first, the corals are not grown enough to sufficiently uptake the nutrients you put in so N/P builds up without skimming, water changes, etc. Once those corals take hold and become big colonies their demand for N/P (and alk,mag,cal for that matter) increases, and if you do not adjust your export accordingly the nutrient levels drop too low and the corals starve. This is why so many people harp on regular testing with quality kits. Every person's process is unique which is one reason why this stuff gets confusing regarding what works and what doesn't.