Some corals closed up after cyano die off

[starypotter]

Hi everyone, and sorry for the novel.
I'm on about day four of a few of my corals being closed up. Tank is about 4 months old in this state, half the rock is years old and everything in there was transferred as I upgraded. I fed the corals a few days ago since I had fish out to feed my rock flower anemone, which is doing great. Tank currently has only inverts. I have noticed no deaths of any inverts in the past few days.

I had been battling a cyano problem for weeks now. At one point maybe a week ago I added a bottle of biospira in the hopes of helping kick the cyano out and when I looked at the tank Saturday morning (today being Tuesday), I noticed that suddenly all of the cyano was dead. It just left a dark webbing over the rocks, this was different because the day before I'd need to blast it off my zoas multiple times a day if I wanted to keep up.

Once I noticed the die off I turned my skimmer to skim wet, I added some filter foam between the baffles of the sump, and I pointed my powerheads to the surface worrying about what the die off might have done to the O2/CO2 levels. Since the die off I have noticed my ulva is growing again, it hadn't grown since the cyano takeover. Nothing but a pinch of baking soda for alk has been added to the tank. I just do a small bit a day by hand since my ATO doesn't work. I didn't even feed at all since about a week ago.

Corals and their states are...
Hammer- growing like crazy in the past week or so, lots of new little arms growing all around, still big and fluffy as it always is
Frogspawn- staying closed up, not quite fully retracted like at night but doesn't open fully either
Duncan- fully retracted, was eating and full as ever just a few days ago
Mushroom- wasn't extending fully the past few days and was turning into a bit of a cone facing up, now is shriveled and very tiny
Florida Ricordea- detached from it's spot of 3 weeks on the day as the cyano death- is now MIA
Assorted zoas- many are reaching more than usual, others are growing visibly each day
Favia, Brain coral, Galaxea, Trumpet, GSP, Chalice- normal if not growing

And to be clear all of these corals have shown growth at one point or another in my tank even if they're closed up now.

Levels are as follows. Yellow ones are red sea test kits, the others are API. My API test kit will show .25 ammonia if I test freshly mixed water, it's not expired it's just API... and I don't usually test for PH, I have a reverse lit sump but that's the number from this evening for good measure.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Are you running carbon by chance. Some cyano release toxins into the water as a way to deter predators or competitors.
Carbon will help remove these.
You could also do the same with water changes but make sure your phosphate doesnt drop to zero or might replace the cyano with dinos.

 

[starypotter]

Are you running carbon by chance. Some cyano release toxins into the water as a way to deter predators or competitors.
Carbon will help remove these.
You could also do the same with water changes but make sure your phosphate doesnt drop to zero or might replace the cyano with dinos.

Alright I'll add some carbon, thanks. I've got a bag of phosguard between one of the baffles, so I'll pull that out and toss the carbon in. I'm pretty sure it's all been used up anyway.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Agreed, GAC for a few days.

Adding alkalinity I would make a gallon of solution from this:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php
The recipe #2 baking soda one.


And dose it using this calculator:

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

 

[cancun]

I agree with the Carbon..... Cyano does release toxins as it dies off...I use Chemipure Blue carbon for years....but you could use any carbon.....I would do a large 30% or more wc and throw some carbon in your sump.....

 

[starypotter]

Agreed, GAC for a few days.

Adding alkalinity I would make a gallon of solution from this:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php
The recipe #2 baking soda one.


And dose it using this calculator:

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Thanks! I had done the calculator to see how much I should be adding a day, and it did actually come out to be about a pinch, I measured the first few times I'm not tossing it in all willy nilly. I'll for sure be adding a wall of carbon in there now and hopefully change some water tomorrow since it's already lights out.

 

[cancun]

Also I don't know if I missed it but is that ammonia ready correct? If so another good reason to fo a large wc...

 

[Flippers4pups]

Also I don't know if I missed it but is that ammonia ready correct? If so another good reason to fo a large wc...

API ammonia kits are notorious for being off at that level. It's probably 0.

 

[Redleg]

Glad to see the biospira helped.

 

[brandon429]

This tank needs to be rip cleaned to make it run right, you have eutrophication and dieoff of adhered invaders on the wall, mixed species of bacteria dosed and dying (self regulating, your tank already had a full complement of bac, you quintupled it) Cyano itself degrading in the tank (the rip clean was the fix for that) and chemical warfare and no feeding in response, yet corals never agreed to stop eating. if you grabbed sand and drop it, a death cloud will result. We would reverse that.

If you grabbed any rock in the tank and shook it in the water, a massive cloud of materials and decay comes off.

The recipe is backwards. Have you seen the number of tanks we’ve collected in the sand rinse thread? Just like your pics, then open and healthy after. Sixteen pages.

I won’t harp on it here as 99% of reefers will not entertain the thought, the strongest tendency is to keep the tank in its current condition even if some corals die. Most would definitely hold course, no matter what. but if you want to save your investment it’s totally easy—and not what the majority recommends (not working)

When you dose sludge digesting bacteria, if you leave that mix of waste they produce by not evacuating it, it’s dangerous. Rip clean to save your tank, helpful pre warning. There are several details beyond what’s stated that indicate you should take another direction but that opening detail + pics should cover it.

 

[Flippers4pups]

This tank needs to be rip cleaned to make it run right, you have eutrophication and dieoff of adhered invaders on the wall, mixed species of bacteria dosed and dying (self regulating, your tank already had a full complement of bac, you quintupled it) Cyano itself degrading in the tank (the rip clean was the fix for that) and chemical warfare and no feeding in response, yet corals never agreed to stop eating. The recipe is backwards. Have you seen the number of tanks we’ve collected in the sand rinse thread? Just like your pics, then open and healthy after. Sixteen pages.

I won’t harp on it here as 99% of reefers will not entertain the thought, the strongest tendency is to keep the tank in its current condition even if some corals die, but if you want to save your investment it’s totally easy—and not what the majority recommends. Majority reco=not working.

When you dose sludge digesting bacteria, if you leave that mix of waste they produce by not evacuating it, it’s dangerous. Rip clean to save your tank, helpful pre warning.

I will agree to disagree with your statement. Respectfully.

 

[brandon429]

Where’s some work threads

Lemme see curing of just five of these examples, to see where you base your disagree. Five is a normal Tuesday, not asking too much.




Glad you posted it too, any claim deserves challenge and I made a claim.

lemme see the work, there are alternate ways to wait out the decay to process through the water / want to see thread work examples you ran for the option

 

[cancun]

API ammonia kits are notorious for being off at that level. It's probably 0.

Oh gotcha, I was thinking that but wanted to be sure! LOL!

 

[starypotter]

Also I don't know if I missed it but is that ammonia ready correct? If so another good reason to fo a large wc...

API ammonia kits are notorious for being off at that level. It's probably 0.

Oh gotcha, I was thinking that but wanted to be sure! LOL!

Yes, it does read high but it reads that on anything, even when I have a seachem badge reading 0 so luckily I've seen enough evidence on here not to be concerned

 

[brandon429]

Regardless of how you deal with the waste in the tank I wouldn’t change path with your normal feed routine. Frags like that don’t want to be under strong lighting when they’re in stress from water actions, lessen the white lighting and siphon what u can to at least help.

 

[cancun]

I have had a Cyanobacteria issue twice several years apart.....both times I used the Chemiclean product....the powder not the liquid....I had excellent results both times, with no coral or nems even closing up. I did a 20% wc after 48 hours like instructed, and that was it. Luckily Cyano is a problem I rarely have now. A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. LOL! Chemiclean is not a sludge eatting bacteria like you mentioned though.....so maybe that was the difference?! First pic is before.....and last two are after......

 

[starypotter]

Glad to see the biospira helped.

I guess it did, yeah, some people had suggested it in an earlier thread I had made about my cyano problems though I had no idea about the toxicity being discussed here.

 

[brandon429]

Cancun that is sharp and clean, and the invader was concentrated on the rocks when it was there I noticed. It didn’t seem to cover all areas, was the sand bad or just rocks? It wasn’t on the walls of the tank. Seems to select where detritus collects


*the bac dosed here aren’t toxic
Sludge bac versus chemi clean not the issue.
It’s the reductions they’ve made, the decaying mix of cyano cells, the nutrients they once held which are now lysed into the water etc (everything a rip clean removes)

you need to at least siphon that out. It’s the rot of their targets that need removed, the bac you dosed worked


A larger, higher flow reef tank with filters will distribute that waste out overtime but not here, as stated above your pics are a tank tuners normal Tuesday and the flow in there isn’t enough to dislodge rotting particles, you’ll need to help.

Flipper, what alternate action makes the walls of this aquarium back to normal anytime soon?

 

[Gareth elliott]

I guess it did, yeah, some people had suggested it in an earlier thread I had made about my cyano problems though I had no idea about the toxicity being discussed here.

Cyano is part of the HAB(harmful algae bloom) Occurring right not in Florida for the past many months. While the k. brevis off the coast takes most of the press; in land water ways are seeing fish die offs from cyano.

Cyano is one of the few organisms that can fix nitrogen from n2 giving it a helping hand when there are wild fluctuations in parameters including nutrients, light intensity etc. if the desirable creatures pause in their uptake for whatever reason these guys are usually the first to strike.

 

[brandon429]

Want to know another neat way to see this tank?
As a mouth and teeth.


If you walked into your dentist right now with a mouth and teeth like that, what actions would he/she take? Would they medicate, or give pills to take? Do they leave bits of food between your teeth during a dentist visit, or do you leave bleeding

What type of unhealthy bacteria are known to be in unkempt teeth vs regularly cleaned ones, what is the material that insulates and locks in bad bacteria on your teeth, if you just stop brushing for a month? Does the color of teeth change in that condition of plaque buildup?


How is the porosity of your rocks, and the biofiltration, affected by being clogged? The bacteria used here are fine, we need to clean up their leftovers. there’s still four more details unmentioned, all calling to be deep cleaned to reclaim your tank a month ago.