Some fish should just be left in the ocean

[james lance]

But it's so pretty!

They have been captive bred and can get to eat frozen and pellets

 

[reeferfoxx]

 

[Salty1962]

I will throw money at you if you can show me how to keep a Hawaiian Cleaner alive through QT

Common Cleaners couldn't be easier to keep

I don't know what you did but mine withstood the times

 

[Salty1962]

lol!!!

 

[jimbau]

I am all for captive breeding but I fail to see how throwing a moorish idol in my tank is any worse than throwing a snapper in my frying pan.

Agreed.
I stopped feeling bad when I saw a picture of a basketful of dead powder blue tangs being sold for pennies for people to eat. I think any fish will have better luck with me than becoming someone's lunch. Food fisheries remove many more tons of fish from the ocean than the hobby ever will.

 

[Nibejeebies]

Agreed.
I stopped feeling bad when I saw a picture of a basketful of dead powder blue tangs being sold for pennies for people to eat. I think any fish will have better luck with me than becoming someone's lunch. Food fisheries remove many more tons of fish from the ocean than the hobby ever will.

To the point that they have starting using other non eye appeasing and nasty sounding naming fish, and renaming them becuase the staples of human feeder fish have been over fished for tooooooo long...

Ever Heard of the Slimehead Deep sea perch? Sure you have.. its also called the Orange Roughy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_roughy

 

[djreef]

Yes,

It does seem to be all about perspective, eh? Who here doesn't want to push the envelope? Who here doesn't want to to take this to the next level? Millions of animals die each year as a result of our arrogance, avorrace, and vanity - yet millions more die to feed us. So, my question is - where do you stand? Are you a part of the problem? - or do you want to be a part of the solution? Do you want to learn how, and then tell the world? Help to be the solution? Nothing ventured - nothing gained, right?

Think about the poor jerks 30 years ago, who were keeping corals and anemones under mercury vapor street lights to try to find the right combination in order to keep these wonderful organisms that we share this planet with, alive. Understand that this has never been about those delicate organisms - it's always been about you - and your understanding of the world around you, and the way that these processes work. This is, and always will be, about Man's mastery of his environment. Look, this has much larger ramifications than just keeping X, or Y alive. This ultimately boils down to our mastery of our own destiny. If we understand it, then we can manipulate it. Folks, this is much bigger than all of us. This is innate. Within us all. Understand your environment - and we survive. Every native, indigenous population up to this point has understood this intuitively. Only within the past 100 years has this 'artificial' environment been created to sustain us.

As mere hobbyists, we get it. Unfortunately, most don't. They wander through life, provided for without an inkling of what it takes to be who they are. Sheeple, I've heard them referred to. We are different. We learn who, what, where and why, and we educate the rest of the world. I don't know if you all understand this, but we are the giants that future generations are going to stand on the shoulders of. What we do here will have ramifications far down the line. Many species of coral only exist in our aquariums. They are gone from the wild. Not because of us, as aquarists, but because of us as human beings en mass. Care? Then Learn. Use your mind, find a way. Then educate, as if your life depends upon it - Because it probably does, and so does everyone else's. Be a part of the solution.

DJ

 

[Untamedrose]

ps...pretty sure useage of the word sheeple makes you one.

 

[Untamedrose]

The Cleaner wrasse was brought up....and I think it's a good example.
It's a nice fish(group as is 5 of them really), pretty, entertaining and beneficial in a reef tanks.

It's also been shown that areas that have been farmed for them(and they are Only farmed for fish tanks cant blame this one on people eating them issue) Have 35% less juveniles for other types of fish in tangs in angels in etc. (I will go pull link the study I was reading if anyone wants it done by some Australian uni if anyone would like to see it)

Clearly they are a keystone species...that the reefs need a blue cleaner more then a random clown. Being able to keep one alive for years is great... Far better then not being able to but the Q is should it be taken out.

Also conserned about ok I got this one fish, but how many died getting this one fish to me? I mean really? real numbers some would say that 99 died for that one. Not so sure I believe that but... also havnt seen numbers against that either.

I feel like IF we dont regulate the markets ourselves..... In a responsible way one that protects the reefs and the trade/hobbiest. It's just a matter of time and going all capitalist screw it I got mine....isnt a solution.

 

[eatbreakfast]

The Cleaner wrasse was brought up....and I think it's a good example.
It's a nice fish(group as is 5 of them really), pretty, entertaining and beneficial in a reef tanks.

It's also been shown that areas that have been farmed for them(and they are Only farmed for fish tanks cant blame this one on people eating them issue) Have 35% less juveniles for other types of fish in tangs in angels in etc. (I will go pull link the study I was reading if anyone wants it done by some Australian uni if anyone would like to see it)

Clearly they are a keystone species...that the reefs need a blue cleaner more then a random clown. Being able to keep one alive for years is great... Far better then not being able to but the Q is should it be taken out.

Also conserned about ok I got this one fish, but how many died getting this one fish to me? I mean really? real numbers some would say that 99 died for that one. Not so sure I believe that but... also havnt seen numbers against that either.

I feel like IF we dont regulate the markets ourselves..... In a responsible way one that protects the reefs and the trade/hobbiest. It's just a matter of time and going all capitalist screw it I got mine....isnt a solution.

The studies(it's a series of studies, just with longer periods of time) aren't affected from the aquarium trade. The researchers go to these reefs weekly to remove cleaner wrasses that settle on the reef. Studies have also shown that cleaner wrasses reach a population capacity, and are quite territorial toward new cleaner wrasse recruits. If capacity has been attained, then those new cleaner wrasses are essentially facing a death sentence. Cleaner wrasses removed are replaced almost immediately, so the reefs where cleaners are collected aren't the same as the ones where researchers are removing all the cleaner wrasses in order to assess their impact on their environment.

 

[miyags]

The fish I feel bad for are the ones that grow to large for most tanks. A grown Vlamingii Tang makes a 500 gallon tank look small.

 

[4FordFamily]

I have several fish that by many people's standards should be "left in the ocean" due to difficulty in captivity.

Moorish idol, two Achilles tangs, 6 leopard wrasses, and a few others. My fish husbandry may be better (through experience and proper qt) but I agree with others that say that sweeping statements like that are somewhat unfair. Some of us work hard and research harder to know how to best provide for species like this.

 

[stevieduk]

As the title states, and that's just my opinion. Why do we keep pulling fish from their natural habitats that have a dismal survival record when placed in captivity in home aquariums? Mandarins, Moorish Idols, Copperband Butterflies are a few that come to mind. Are there success stories with these fish? Absolutely. But for every success story there are probably a hundred failures, maybe more. I fear that as hobbyists if we don't start policing ourselves with regard to something like this someone else will be doing the policing for us. More than likely that will not end well for the aquarium industry.

totally agree my friend , like all the idiots pulling thousands of fish out of the waters around Hawaii , and a good percentage of them are dead before they leave the place. owners of marine systems with end up being thought of as the reef killers in the future if this carries on.
There needs to be a collection ban every other season to let the fish breed and stocks increase

 

[djreef]

ps...pretty sure useage of the word sheeple makes you one.

Really? This is all you took from what I wrote? Wow.

DJ

 

[mr11]

The studies(it's a series of studies, just with longer periods of time) aren't affected from the aquarium trade. The researchers go to these reefs weekly to remove cleaner wrasses that settle on the reef. Studies have also shown that cleaner wrasses reach a population capacity, and are quite territorial toward new cleaner wrasse recruits. If capacity has been attained, then those new cleaner wrasses are essentially facing a death sentence. Cleaner wrasses removed are replaced almost immediately, so the reefs where cleaners are collected aren't the same as the ones where researchers are removing all the cleaner wrasses in order to assess their impact on their environment.

Wait, the researchers are intentionally removing the cleaner wrasse for the study? Do you have a link?

 

[djreef]

I have several fish that by many people's standards should be "left in the ocean" due to difficulty in captivity.

Moorish idol, two Achilles tangs, 6 leopard wrasses, and a few others. My fish husbandry may be better (through experience and proper qt) but I agree with others that say that sweeping statements like that are somewhat unfair. Some of us work hard and research harder to know how to best provide for species like this.

Please share your techniques. I think we should build a husbandry data base specific to difficult to keep animals.

DJ

 

[eatbreakfast]

Wait, the researchers are intentionally removing the cleaner wrasse for the study? Do you have a link?

I don't have the links, but if you search google.scholar, the authors are Waldie, Blomberg, Cheney, Goldizen, Grutter. And look them up with Labroides dimidiatus. Grutter has done a lot with marine parasites.

 

[monkiboy]

Please share your techniques. I think we should build a husbandry data base specific to difficult to keep animals.

check out the fish discussion sub forum and the "Difficult and Special Care Species List" thread and all the primers on this site and RC. there is a myriad of very helpful threads on species specific success for most of the more delicate/difficult/lots-of-research-required fish for aquaria

 

[ReeferBob]

Also conserned about ok I got this one fish, but how many died getting this one fish to me? I mean really? real numbers some would say that 99 died for that one. Not so sure I believe that but... also havnt seen numbers against that either.

Well that's certainly scientific!

 

[armspar]

I cant wait until they crack the code for captive bred achilles tangs, I have a healthy one in my tank but it took me a few tries. The problem is that the fish are too available to buy because of price and always being imported. Many fish could still be wild caught, they just have to be prioritized care.