Some of my Acro Collection

[Aqua Splendor]

It's an interesting debate indeed. It's great to see your friend having good feedback to Concorde with your experience.

There's also the syndrome of corals taking off because they are simply ready and mature well anchor. There's so many variables that is hard to truly know at times what cause X.

The nitrifying info is with the text companies write their salad. They all in a way formulated towards nitrification... but this is subject to debate also. If only companies could elaborate...

Indeed bacteria population dwindle at time, it's a continuous evolution.

speaking of GFO, I use it in a newer system, somehow it melted with 2 other product, never seen before, it killed my clam in few hours. Took me 5month recover correctly and dissipate most of the pathogen that was spreading from new frag to new frag. rough 6month. I saw some piece affected by disease (can't tell what) and was hoping they will recover but... having "hope" killed many others. Decided to remove all affected one day and the tanks started to flourish after a week. Was basically feeding the disease by keep infected frag.

I have an mature tank where it was in contact at the beginning with live rock. It's a tank I'm trying to close and not taking care of. Yet. That tank even if temperature fluctuate (slapped T5 direct on tank) and mega alk swing, is "curing" bad corals. It's like an hospital. and this anecdote, made me wonder if microbiome should at top 3 instead of top 6 of priorities. Salnity, Temperature, Microbiome, Alkalinity, Phosphate, Nitrate. The most important aspect I keep an eye on personally.

For now the only method to know a product is word to mouth, if we see some mass of people saying X product is good for Y and those people can understand cause of mortality of a coral (instead of pointing wrong thing because of lack of experience) than yeah, why not use it. So your soup could be a good one indeed. Or could be just more water in the soup too . Hard to tell, just need volume of feedback.

Very interesting debate and discussion.

I'm tempted to try but... I'm making an aquarium without much product, The least possible to see where it leads with pociloporidae coral and max 3 acro. No bacteria additive have been used so far only from coral purchase on their rock and skin.

 

[Strad12]

I saw this article on ReefBuilders and thought members of this thread may enjoy reading and discussing it:

Study Reveals How Corals Gain N and P in Darwin’s Paradox | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

An article published in the Journal Nature has found that photosynthetic corals not only host their symbiotic algae, they feed directly on it too, and importantly, it is how they uptake Nitrogen and…

reefbuilders.com

to summarize: the study seeks to answer the question known as the "Darwin's Paradox": how can highly diverse coral reefs exist in nutrient-poor water? The study concludes that symbiotic zooxanthele in the coral tissue transports ammonium, nitrogen, and phosphorous to the coral. Corals are not capable of absorbing N and P themselves and rely on the symbiotic algae to transport these valuable nutrients into their tissues. The study concluded that supplementing nitrogen and phosphorous resulted in increased growth rates in captive corals, and that insufficient N and P levels stunted growth and resulted in bleached coloration.


My conclusion from this study as it pertains to hobbyist reef keeping: nitrate and phosphate should be considered necessities for growth and providing proper nutrition to SPS corals. I don't think exact levels of N or P should be targeted as long as food is being added, because ideally symbiotes should transport those elements directly to the corals before they show up on a test kit. Perhaps a small surplus should be the benchmark just to ensure the corals aren't going hungry. I would add that anecdotally, I've seen faster calcification and better colors in my SPS corals when I supplement an organic carbon source in addition to feeding fish/coral foods. I don't think introducing new bacterial populations is nearly as important as feeding the population that already exists in the tank and letting them do the heavy lifting when it comes to feeding corals.


Curious to know what other reefers think about this article and how they might implement this info in their approach.

 

[Perry]

Hi Allan,
Here is an interesting thread, I am sure you have seen and read, but just in case, some of the posters here may also want to view for different perspectives. I totally agree with ANYONE questioning ANY company about snake oils, marketing hype, SM influencers, etc. You are doing a great job with your research, as well as testing. Keep it up, brother

Why cant u keep sps?

Well first and for most im not a scientist or marine biologist my theory base only on my experience and observation on my reef tank. I just want to help those that have problems keeping sps. In this discussion please keep it positive and dont make it to “i know better than u or led is better...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[coral reeftank]

I saw this article on ReefBuilders and thought members of this thread may enjoy reading and discussing it:

Study Reveals How Corals Gain N and P in Darwin’s Paradox | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

An article published in the Journal Nature has found that photosynthetic corals not only host their symbiotic algae, they feed directly on it too, and importantly, it is how they uptake Nitrogen and…

reefbuilders.com

to summarize: the study seeks to answer the question known as the "Darwin's Paradox": how can highly diverse coral reefs exist in nutrient-poor water? The study concludes that symbiotic zooxanthele in the coral tissue transports ammonium, nitrogen, and phosphorous to the coral. Corals are not capable of absorbing N and P themselves and rely on the symbiotic algae to transport these valuable nutrients into their tissues. The study concluded that supplementing nitrogen and phosphorous resulted in increased growth rates in captive corals, and that insufficient N and P levels stunted growth and resulted in bleached coloration.


My conclusion from this study as it pertains to hobbyist reef keeping: nitrate and phosphate should be considered necessities for growth and providing proper nutrition to SPS corals. I don't think exact levels of N or P should be targeted as long as food is being added, because ideally symbiotes should transport those elements directly to the corals before they show up on a test kit. Perhaps a small surplus should be the benchmark just to ensure the corals aren't going hungry. I would add that anecdotally, I've seen faster calcification and better colors in my SPS corals when I supplement an organic carbon source in addition to feeding fish/coral foods. I don't think introducing new bacterial populations is nearly as important as feeding the population that already exists in the tank and letting them do the heavy lifting when it comes to feeding corals.


Curious to know what other reefers think about this article and how they might implement this info in their approach.

to summarize: the study seeks to answer the question known as the "Darwin's Paradox": how can highly diverse coral reefs exist in nutrient-poor water? The study concludes that symbiotic zooxanthele in the coral tissue transports ammonium, nitrogen, and phosphorous to the coral. Corals are not capable of absorbing N and P themselves and rely on the symbiotic algae to transport these valuable nutrients into their tissues. The study concluded that supplementing nitrogen and phosphorous resulted in increased growth rates in captive corals, and that insufficient N and P levels stunted growth and resulted in bleached coloration.

At this point, this observation is pretty well known among experienced sps keepers. No longer do we want to drive our systems ULNS like before. The symbionts, and other microbes make up the coral holobiont and the coral relies on these symbiotic relations to gather the additional nutrition that the coral itself cannot produce.

My conclusion from this study as it pertains to hobbyist reef keeping: nitrate and phosphate should be considered necessities for growth and providing proper nutrition to SPS corals. I don't think exact levels of N or P should be targeted as long as food is being added, because ideally symbiotes should transport those elements directly to the corals before they show up on a test kit. Perhaps a small surplus should be the benchmark just to ensure the corals aren't going hungry.

Agreed, there should be some testable levels. However, just because you have testable levels does not mean that there is adequate nutrient cycling in your system.

Let's imagine a system where someone has an algae outbreak, and pale looking corals. They test their N and P and they receive "normal results" like 10 ppm N and .1 ppm P. They also have down an ICP and received back "perfect" results a 100/100 if you will.
Would you say that this is optimal? The presence of an algae outbreak and pale corals would indicate a NO.
It would seem in this made up scenario that there is an imbalance of nutrient cycling that is allowing the algae to proliferate and the corals to become pale.

Perhaps we could proceed with your method in hopes to resolve this situation.

I would add that anecdotally, I've seen faster calcification and better colors in my SPS corals when I supplement an organic carbon source in addition to feeding fish/coral foods.

While I do think that one could certainly do this, you have to remember that this would also feed potentially pathogenic bacteria as well. In this hypothetical situation there is a chance that the corals rebound and the algae dies back. However, there is also the chance that by following an indiscriminate carbon dosing regimen you potentially feed the pathogenic bacteria to the point where you experience mass RTN.
Many people have experienced this RTN from carbon dosing. Soooo many anecdotes of carbon dosing gone wrong, biopellets gone wrong, etc...

My personal experience of carbon dosing vs. bacteria dosing is night and day.

A simple analogy would be to liken carbon dosing as giving an inexperienced chef (your system microbiome) a myriad of gourmet ingredients(carbon source). Can you be sure that this inexperienced chef can produce a gourmet result? or will they produce an abomination and destroy those ingredients?

Whereas bacteria dosing likens to the inexperienced chef going out to a fancy restaurant and eating a gourmet steak dinner.

Given the fact that you choose the right bacteria use for each use case you can see that the potential for error or catastrophe is much lower when you dose bacteria vs carbon dosing.

In my opinion, carbon dosing can do more harm than good for an inexperienced reefer. Whereas bacteria dosing can serve as a more versatile tool in our reefing arsenal.
If you dose bacteria, you will eventually hit the carrying capacity for your system due to the nature of it being a closed system. The bacteria can only populate the open niches and are limited by the resources (food, aminos, carbon sources) that exist in the tank prior to their introduction.

If you were to carbon dose, you are artificially raising the carrying the capacity for your system by providing an influx of resources for all bacteria to use, in some cases you are allowing pathogenic bacteria to proliferate too.

So just view carbon dosing as a generalist method and bacteria dosing as a specialist method. The best approach would be to combine both (which is what I do) , however one should not dose directly into the system. Instead, let that mixture of carbon sources and beneficial bacteria to "marinade" in a separate container and then dose that once it is done "marinading".


Also if you want to see an acropora actually eat, check this video out. It is my concoction at work! @Heabel7 got to see first hand how my corals reacted. It's not that typical "blow food on an Acro and watch it slough off" reaction. It's a distinct all across the board feeding response as the coral catches the food as it drifts slowly by.

 

[Charlie the Reefer]

How do you even begin to approach the proper ratios of nutrients, aminos, chemicals, bacteria, etc in your “concoction”? I’m very fascinated by this idea. But I’m wondering how your process has evolved or is evolving for determining what to mix together.

Additionally, if someone where to “begin” a comparable method, how to gradually dose some similar (albeit smaller volume) “bacteria concoction”

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[coral reeftank]

How do you even begin to approach the proper ratios of nutrients, aminos, chemicals, bacteria, etc in your “concoction”? I’m very fascinated by this idea. But I’m wondering how your process has evolved or is evolving for determining what to mix together.

Additionally, if someone where to “begin” a comparable method, how to gradually dose some similar (albeit smaller volume) “bacteria concoction”

Thanks for the thoughts!

Well, it's pretty much every single product I own mixed into one concoction. I just follow the product's guidelines and put in the equivalent amount of product for my system's volume. I have been tweaking around with the ratios of each product though. You will notice different effects depending on whether you use more bacteria, or foods, or enzyme.

I've been playing around with how frequent to use it and how it impacts the test levels. I definitely think that you would have to decide on your own dosage ultimately to cater to your system. I don't necessarily think that there will be a one size fits all dosing regimen.

 

[coral reeftank]

Just did a round of fragging!

Just kidding, I’ll be turning these guys into calcium reactor media.

 

[BigKid4788]

Hopefully those are from a while ago

 

[coral reeftank]

Hopefully those are from a while ago

Oh yea, long long ago. Most of those colonies were grown from little frags too, so the cycle continues!

 

[coral reeftank]

Took a peak inside the oven, too much heat escaped!

The polyps on this one are bonkers! They're starting to transition and I'm seeing some reds and orange. The pink is also beginning to form!!

Another nutty smoothie

A diamond in the rough, this one's still got a long ways to go but I'm excited! The nicest ones always start out the ugliest lol

I thought tenuis were kinda boring, but this one has me excited again. I got a feeling that this one is going to knock your socks off!

 

[coral reeftank]

The system is rebooted and the acros are in!

 

[ReeferSpot]

The system is rebooted and the acros are in!

T5's and Reef Brites?

 

[coral reeftank]

T5's and Reef Brites?

Oh yea keepin this tank old school lol

 

[coral reeftank]

More Goodies!

 

[Heabel7]

You’re killing me man. I got the fever

 

[coral reeftank]

You’re killing me man. I got the fever

Oh noo, hope it’s not contagious lol

 

[Heabel7]

 

[coral reeftank]

A start to a great weekend!!

The purple tips on this one are pretty dope!

TGC Pearly Gates, This one's starting to explode now

CRT Toxic Lemonade

Another crazy piece that grafted in my tank, Grafted TGC Boogeyman

 

[coral reeftank]

I need some Bacillus pumilus strain H2 ASAP!!!! Lol

I’ve been doing a bit of sleuthing around and I think I’ve found one of the main probiotic bacteria strains. I think that this is in a few of the products that are floating around currently and am wondering if anyone has used this strain exclusively before.

Mechanism of anti-Vibrio activity of marine probiotic strain Bacillus pumilus H2, and characterization of the active substance

Vibriosis is a major epizootic disease that impacts free-living and farmed fish species worldwide. Use of probiotics is a promising approach for prevention of Vibrio infections in aquaculture. A probiotic anti-Vibrio strain, Bacillus pumilus H2, was characterized, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[coral reeftank]

Fun Times!

CRT Golden Eye

happy Speciosa!

Cookin