Some reef problems...at a loss.

a6walter1 · Sep 22, 2016

Based on experience, I would try to get your water parameters in check before you start worrying about lighting.

Levels checked last thurs:
PH: 7.85 - 7.95 over the course of a day...but mostly on the low side. - Seems okay to me
ALK: 11-14 has been on the high side. - Alkalinity should be between 8 and 10 in most healthy reef tanks
CALCIUM: 500 - Calcium should be between 350 and 450 in most healthy reef tanks
Nitrates: Undetectable - If PO4 is as high as what you say, you may want to consider trying to raise Nitrates, which will in turn lower phosphates. According to Randy Holmes-Farley PO4 above 0.12 will cause stunted growth.
Phosphates less than .16 - See above
Magnesium: 1300 - Seems okay to me
SG: 1.025 to 1.026 - Seems okay to me
Temp 78-80 - Seems okay to me

Ehunforfun · Sep 22, 2016

@justingraham its 72", why don't you think that's enough light?

I don't need light over the overflow so now we're talking 66" of lighting needed. My rock work is two island with an arch in between...

All my corals are on the two islands. So I think it's fine, not worried about peak lighting at the edges.

Ehunforfun · Sep 22, 2016

Thanks for all the help everyone, I had read that alk at 11 was what nsw was so I was shooting for that.

How does raising nitrates lower phosphates? Never knew about that.

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 22, 2016

That's a beauty.

justingraham · Sep 22, 2016

Pretty
Wel I was looking into it and on a six foot tank they recommend 3-4 on a six footer. Less shadows more actual light. Like I honestly like ur set up and it is pretty but u have shadows tons of them. Is that in ur kitchen btw??? They say the 30s do about two feet properly. Not the 3 feet echotech says. Now I have never owned radions so I do not know from first hand experience but search radions on a six foot tank and most people have three and say they should have gotten a forth.

justingraham · Sep 22, 2016

Nsw is 8 for alk I beleive

Ehunforfun · Sep 22, 2016

Yeah when they're on at peak I'm pretty happy with the two, that picture doesn't really do the lights justice was just trying to illustrate the setup I have.

Plus a third radion would have been way out of my budget! It's in the living room to the right of the TV, was a battle getting my wife to let me build that there.

justingraham · Sep 22, 2016

I love it man I really do very nice and clean set up u did a great job on that

CodyRVA · Sep 22, 2016

How old is this system? How often are you testing? IMO I would trust a test kit over a probe hands down. If you're carbon dosing your ALK is definitely way high.

Ehunforfun · Sep 22, 2016

It's about 4 months old, I've been testing 1-2 times per week now.

Just curious why a color gauge based test is considered more reliable than a properly calibrated pH probe?

Here is a picture of the two distressed corals...one looks done today...

Terrible pictures with my phone...

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 22, 2016

there's a million ways to skin a cat as far as a nutrients go and a lot of folks keep those higher and lower depending on livestock.
In a young tank you are going to have weird ph. You are going to have weird Po as it naturally comes out of the rock and the bio filter starts to eat it and that'll get it more and more stable.
If seen a lot of tanks grow great stuff with higher and lower Params too.
In a in a newer tank those ar gonna change.

CodyRVA · Sep 22, 2016

I would test twice a day at different times of the day for a week and chart everything. If you're having chemistry swings, considering the system is young and the issues at hand I'm going to assume you are, then that either is the issue or apart of a bigger one.

As far as the probes, that's just my opinion, I hear too many people complaining about them for me to waste any time on them. They obviously work, but consistency seems to be lacking.

Salty1962 · Sep 22, 2016

85% of light from Pro's is allot of light. Are you using the wide angle lenses? If your using the TIR lenses, you may want to dial them back to @40-50%.

Bbaz123456 · Sep 22, 2016

11-14 alk is a problem. Not just that it's high but that's a very broad range. Stability is key! Imo way more important than the actual numbers themselves. Personally I wouldn't worry about the pH and I would not dose anything until absolutely necessary. Do small water changes every few weeks or so and you'll be fine.

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 22, 2016

CodyRVA said:
I would test twice a day at different times of the day for a week and chart everything. If you're having chemistry swings, considering the system is young and the issues at hand I'm going to assume you are, then that either is the issue or apart of a bigger one.

As far as the probes, that's just my opinion, I hear too many people complaining about them for me to waste any time on them. They obviously work, but consistency seems to be lacking.

Funny I was going to say check it very other week or so. Lol.
Unless your dosing cal and alk.

Ehunforfun · Sep 23, 2016

I dialed the lighting back to 60%, and its on the natural spectrum setting so it's only at 60% for a couple hours per day, the rest of the photo period is spent ramping up or down. All the healthy corals (sps/lps/zoas)seemed to be doing great.

I'll do some more tests, i dialed back the vinegar dosing (only thing being dosed).

Water changes are about 1% per day.

I'm going to run some tests tomorrow but already adding airline to the input in the skimmer and keeping the windows in this room open has bumped my pH up .05 over a matter of 5 hours.

Again I appreciate all the help.

Kungpaoshizi · Sep 23, 2016

I would imagine it's the low nitrate. I've had frogspawn lose a head, nitrates were <1ppm. Then I bring up nitrates to around 2-5ppm, the head grew back. I also try to feed some powdered food at least once a day in addition to feeding via doser Reef Energy every hour. (for the powdered food, about the size of a red spoon from a salifert test kit)

It's tough to keep a mixed tank, but as long as you feed everyday you satisfy a lot, of course you just need to keep nutrients low for the tougher species, but it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 23, 2016

Heres Randys parameter article.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

Keep in mind theses are flexible to the livestock you want to keep, and small swings and fluctuations are normal are normal. Imo in a younger tank these change as the rock ages anges its a lot slower than folk figure and it takes a while to truly become stable. The list is more recommended as guidelines and we dont fully know the impact on higher P no etc. from species to species. AS Sanjay And Rich Ross Both Said at macna, we didnt use to worry about po in the hobby and still had great tanks. Then you could test for them and now we worry about them.

Imo the testing is more to track the changes as we observe how the tank is metabolising the nutrients,cal and alk over time. The listed parameters are guidelines to keep you in the ball park. and esp with dosing insure were adding back in what is being used up and in vinegar dosing to insure we dont overstrip the nutrients. As the higher bacteria is eating the same food the corals and macro are.

As far as the brown jelly its quite possible its just a bacteria feeding on tissue loss on the coral and being fueld by the carbon dosing. The decline in the coral could be due to the low nutrients or flow or light or yout tank just isnt ready for those yet as it hasnt developed quite the magic blend it wants. Or, os most folks now are more concerned with bug removal in thier dipping they use a pesticide dip and not an anti bac or anti microbial or algae killer like Revive or Iodine or peroxide and a bacteria was introduced that likes the taste of frogspawn.

As much as we use the mantra dont chase numbers we all still do, and I have recently tried to not test

as much just to make sure im not chasing them. All the worst problems in my tank the numbers were fine if not perfect. I even drove to three LFS one day just to test the theory. the only thing that bit me in the but was cal alk and mag because as my nutrients rose to "unacceptable levels"and I increased the lighting, my stony corals took off and exploded with growth and I had a hard time keeping up with the mineral dosing.
My talbot shredded my dsb. That was the nutrient source.

The high alk is a bit of a prob but this.

Bbaz123456 said:
11-14 alk is a problem. Not just that it's high but that's a very broad range. Stability is key! Imo way more important than the actual numbers themselves. Personally I wouldn't worry about the pH and I would not dose anything until absolutely necessary. Do small water changes every few weeks or so and you'll be fine.

No one thing youve got going is going to do any harm. Just make the slow gradual changes.

The Po is a bit of the stuff still coming off the rocks and as the biofioter ramps up itll reach a balance. its a young tank. fwiw if you put coral skeleton into salt water of a ph around 8 it dissolves minerals and phosphates esp on the surface of the rock and slowly makes its way into the rock until the most readily available and easily dissolved of those are removed. its part of what fuels the ugly phase.

Its really what I think youve got going on right now, but you set this tank up so well and fueled the biofilter so well your ugly phase is really pretty good looking. IMO

It really sounds like youve got this pretty close to dialed in.

Dreadnaught · Sep 23, 2016

I think your running too clean. Nitrates are important building block of all coral. I was having very slow growth with 0 NO3 / 0 PO. It's been about ~4 weeks of shutting my skimmer off 1:00-3:00 am and I have visibly seen faster growth of SPS and LPS. I have also seen my Alk/Ca/Mg consumption increase. I would recommend dosing Amino Acids as they are a source of carbon and nitrogen.

Your Alk, Ca are on the high side. They will come down naturally when growth is occurring.

This is reinforced by Softies being considered "easy" ... Meaning they do well in a tank that does not get water changes "as often as they should". I.e. They love a dirtier tank.

Get in the habit of checking Alk daily. You will see in the numbers how your tank is responding to changes that you are making. Check everything else every couple weeks. Don't chase pH it will drive you crazy and cause you to do stupid things like add buffers. Once you get your Ca, Alk, Mag down a little then top off with KW. It will help get your pH up. (So will surface agitation/waves, opening a window to increase oxygen levels and blowing a fan across the surface of the water).