Something is VERY wrong with my fish

[Breakthecycle2]

I also read that lowering salinity to 1.012 in your Qt tank will eliminate ich, velvet and most parasites without the use of chemicals.

Any truth to that @Humblefish? Also, when do the parasites fall off in the copper?

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Stick with copper. Hyposalinity does not work for MV.

 

[pimmar]

Well I read it worked for both but I have no personal experience with it.

 

[Humblefish]

Any truth to that @Humblefish? Also, when do the parasites fall off in the copper?

Hyposalinity only treats ich and must be maintained for 30 days in order to be effective. Also, the SG must be lowered all the way down to 1.009 for hypo treatment. Another thing I should mention is that hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (Yambot study 2003); so it is not always effective.

Copper treats both ich & velvet, but also takes up to 30 days in order to be effective.

Now more to your point about when do the parasites fall off the fish. For ich it's anywhere from 3-7 days; for velvet it's as little as 12 hours or as long as 4 days. Dependent upon the strain you are dealing with. But one thing that needs to be understood is that no in-tank treatment (CP, copper, hyposalinity) has any impact on the parasites on the fish. A FW dip/formalin bath will usually dislodge trophonts (i.e. parasites on the fish) for velvet & brook; but for ich the benefits are less clear because ich trophonts burrow deeper into the skin.

So why treat with CP, copper, hypo? When the parasites drop off the fish, they will encyst as tomonts and eventually release theronts (i.e. free swimmers) which actively seek out fish to infect. If these theronts successfully find a fish host, they become trophonts and the cycle begins all over again. However, these theronts are vulnerable to CP, copper, hypo. In fact, they are the only stage of the parasite that is. So what you are doing by treating with CP, copper, hypo is putting up a "shield" and waiting for the parasite to enter it's theront stage so the chemicals/hypo conditions in the water can zap them. This interrupts the parasite's life cycle by killing off all the theronts and effectively ends it's presence in your QT. This is also why it can take up to 30 days, because you are waiting for the parasite to reach it's theront stage.

 

[ca2or]

I didn't see this asked already but do you run a UV sterlizer? I lost about 80% of my fish population a few years ago when I bought fish from a store out here that was not very good, IMO. Installed UV sterilizer and never looked back.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

The issue I have with UV is that it only zaps what passes through it. Since parasites can drop off into rock/sand and never pass through UV, I've always felt it keeps numbers down, but does not eliminate. That being said, I do run UV in my bare bottom QT/Observation tank. It's an inexpensive unit and I'm honestly not sure how much help it is. If anything, it provides water movement.

 

[ca2or]

While this is true I have always dealt with Velvet and Ich in the same manor. From the moment I see it I raise the temp in the tank to accelerate the process of the Ich/velvet and turn on UV. Basically the cycle for ich/velvet is that it gets to the fish, does it's dirty work, drops to the sand....matures, gets back to the fish. So, the increased temp accelerates this keeping it in the water more often and allowing my UV to get it.

I can't confirm my belief of the process by scientific fact, but that was how it was explained to me and ever since then I follow this process and haven't lost a single fish to ich or velvet. Yes, I have had it in my tank since learning this and yes it worked.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I didn't see this asked already but do you run a UV sterlizer? I lost about 80% of my fish population a few years ago when I bought fish from a store out here that was not very good, IMO. Installed UV sterilizer and never looked back.

I do run a Aqua Ultraviolet 57W UV.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Hyposalinity only treats ich and must be maintained for 30 days in order to be effective. Also, the SG must be lowered all the way down to 1.009 for hypo treatment. Another thing I should mention is that hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (Yambot study 2003); so it is not always effective.

Copper treats both ich & velvet, but also takes up to 30 days in order to be effective.

Now more to your point about when do the parasites fall off the fish. For ich it's anywhere from 3-7 days; for velvet it's as little as 12 hours or as long as 4 days. Dependent upon the strain you are dealing with. But one thing that needs to be understood is that no in-tank treatment (CP, copper, hyposalinity) has any impact on the parasites on the fish. A FW dip/formalin bath will usually dislodge trophonts (i.e. parasites on the fish) for velvet & brook; but for ich the benefits are less clear because ich trophonts burrow deeper into the skin.

So why treat with CP, copper, hypo? When the parasites drop off the fish, they will encyst as tomonts and eventually release theronts (i.e. free swimmers) which actively seek out fish to infect. If these theronts successfully find a fish host, they become trophonts and the cycle begins all over again. However, these theronts are vulnerable to CP, copper, hypo. In fact, they are the only stage of the parasite that is. So what you are doing by treating with CP, copper, hypo is putting up a "shield" and waiting for the parasite to enter it's theront stage so the chemicals/hypo conditions in the water can zap them. This interrupts the parasite's life cycle by killing off all the theronts and effectively ends it's presence in your QT. This is also why it can take up to 30 days, because you are waiting for the parasite to reach it's theront stage.

I lost one of the fish in QT, strange thing is they didn't even look "sick". I am going to do a freshwater dip...but I am little nervous. What is the best way to do this?

 

[ca2or]

I would be concerned over additional stress to the animal.

 

[ca2or]

Do you copper your qt tank?

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Do you copper your qt tank?

It is. Yes.

 

[ca2or]

Hmm....my approach would most likely be garlic to maintain appetite, UV and increased temp to fight infection, and possibly medication. I despise Velvet for how hard it is to defeat. Ich is much easier. Someone told me cleaner shrimp are key....not sure how viable that actually is though.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Hmm....my approach would most likely be garlic to maintain appetite, UV and increased temp to fight infection, and possibly medication. I despise Velvet for how hard it is to defeat. Ich is much easier. Someone told me cleaner shrimp are key....not sure how viable that actually is though.

My concern is how to get it out of my display tank. Does it have to be fallow? 72 days?

 

[ca2or]

I know not everybody agrees, but honestly I would do the temp UV thing on my main display that's where I've always treated mine I never even use my QT tank anymore

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I know not everybody agrees, but honestly I would do the temp UV thing on my main display that's where I've always treated mine I never even use my QT tank anymore

Can you eleaborate a little bit more?I am so stressed out. I haven't slept in days all because of this. I'm ready to pack in it to be honest. I;m very upset.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

MV usually kills fast. It wiped my tank out in about a week. I'd come home to a dead fish or two every day. If your fish are hanging in there, I'm hoping that it's something else.

The disappearing spots are the mystery. Hopefully whatever it is gets zapped by the copper.

Fallow should get rid of it in your DT if it is a parasite. I went fallow for almost three months with hypo just for overkill and did a massive water change after. Almost a year later and no problems.

 

[Oceansize]

+1 for UV sterilizers. Some people claim minimal effect, if any, but in my case the benefits have been obvious and profound. I also run activated carbon at all times (changed every month or so) and have a pair of cleaner shrimp. Crossing my fingers that I never have to deal with this ich/velvet stuff. (one can hope)

 

[ca2or]

I kick my temp up to 82....yes it's high....but kick up temp, run UV nonstop until it is gone. This is just from my experiences....but as stated....not everyone will agree on this. You should also seek out medication if it is really bad....which Velvet usually is.

 

[ca2or]

oh DO NOT COPPER your display if you have coral in there or plan on putting coral in there....ever. If you already knew this please don't let me insult your intellegence....you just never know where experience levels are.