SPS coral not happy (Help me pleasee) :-)

[Rick D]

Hi there,

So I upgraded my tank to a 550 liter.
Its running now for about 3 months.

I have placed a few pieces of SPS at the top of the rock structure.
Also a Monitpora Plate coral, and a few other pieces.

At the beginning I saw it growing.
Now most of them do not extend there polips.

After a water change, a week later my Monitopora Plate Coral wil start bleaching/and is getting white spots.
Also my Montipora branching coral is starting now..
Some of them still have there polips open, but most of them are not.

I have lots of LPS corals, wich are doing fine.

I guess it should be some build up of something in my system.

Is there anybody who can help me identify my problem?

Parameters:

Alkalinity: 7
Calcium: 450
Magnesium: 1440
Fosfaat: 0.1
Nitrate: 5

 

[loui]

IMO your tank is way to young to have any corals in it. The dead rock that we use needs at least 9 months to setup this was a lot different when we could get live rock from the ocean. As a general rule of thumb that I go by is I don't add any corals until I start seeing coraline algae growth. Also your tank looks way to clean are you sure your phosphate and nitrate test is accurate all your corals look stressed and bleached?

 

[Rick D]

IMO your tank is way to young to have any corals in it. The dead rock that we use needs at least 9 months to setup this was a lot different when we could get live rock from the ocean. As a general rule of thumb that I go by is I don't add any corals until I start seeing coraline algae growth. Also your tank looks way to clean are you sure your phosphate and nitrate test is accurate all your corals look stressed and bleached?

Thanks alot for your reaction.

I was given the advice to cycle and then add coral.

There is also a part of my old tank in there wich had actual life rock, the coraline algae is still on there.

The tank is clean, because i clean my glass and sand each week.

I started off with aloth of white rocks, which are all brown now.

Im testing with Red sea Phosphate en Nitrate, and also Salifert nitrate.
At the beginning Phosphate was high, I fixed this with Phosrem dsr.

The only corals in my tank that are stressed is the SPS on top of the rock, and the Montipora plate coral is only stressing after a week after my water change.

PS. The Duncan, and branching duncan are growing fast.
Also my Euphyllia is growing without a problem.

It splitted from 1 head to 4 already.

And i am not adding anymore corals untill i see everything happy.

Kind Regards, Rick

 

[Tamberav]

When you say life rock do you mean life rock or live rock?

Life rock is painted with fake coralline algae. It is not real.

Once coralline starts growing (usually on pumps and back wall first) then it is a good indicator you are ready for SPS. Some people do it much sooner successfully but many also fail.

What lights are you using? Did you acclimate the corals to the light or just stick them on top? It looks like a deeper tank so that may not be a problem but sometimes you can shock them with lights.

LPS corals in general are a lot more forgiving then even easier SPS corals when it comes to young tanks.

 

[Screwgunner]

Had my rock in a garbage can for 4 moths in the tank for 5 months just now getting coralline algea.

 

[Screwgunner]

Mine did the same thing . I turned the light down a bit it seemed to help. Color came back and I slowly turned my light back up.

 

[Rick D]

When you say life rock do you mean life rock or live rock?

Life rock is painted with fake coralline algae. It is not real.

Once coralline starts growing (usually on pumps and back wall first) then it is a good indicator you are ready for SPS. Some people do it much sooner successfully but many also fail.

What lights are you using? Did you acclimate the corals to the light or just stick them on top? It looks like a deeper tank so that may not be a problem but sometimes you can shock them with lights.

LPS corals in general are a lot more forgiving then even easier SPS corals when it comes to young tanks.

I'm sorry, I mean actual live rock from the sea.
So all of the rocks from the old tank are in the new one.

And a few new pieces which is dead rock.

I'm using Ecotech Radion pro XR15, its running on 60% at 12Pm and then goes slowly down.

The strange thing is, that the monitpora plate is only bleaching after a week.
Then water change, and its back to normal the next day...

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Rick D]

Mine did the same thing . I turned the light down a bit it seemed to help. Color came back and I slowly turned my light back up.

You also had bleached spots after a week?

I could turn my light to 50%.

 

[Scorpius]

If you want SPS in a system started with 100% dry rock wait 18 months. If not, expect high coral mortality.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

That's actually a fairly common reaction for montipora plate coral. I've a colony that's been in a small 20g tank for about 5 years. I maintain this tank by replacing about 50% of the ASW once every month or so (this was originally intended as a live rock holding tank, not as an official "reef", and the montipora was a volunteer). That coral does precisely what you describe - it will start showing white patches where the tissue between the polyps has eroded away that slowly grows worse over the month interval between water changes. Once the water change is performed, it's back to health within a few days.

It's not at all clear to me what is causing this. It's unlikely to be alk/calcium swings since as an experiment I closely maintained the alk/ca numbers by daily testing and dosing with 2-part solutions, but to no avail.

It's true that the general rule of thumb is to wait a bit longer to add SPS to a new system, but of course that advice doesn't help you much at the moment. One effect that is fairly well established in reef tanks is that high light intensity and very low nutrients tends to make SPS coral's colors fade over a few weeks, then completely bleach and die over a two to three day period (sometimes overnight). This effect is particularly pronounced if the alkalinity is kept on the high end, though that's not the case in your tank.

My advice would be as follows: reduce your light intensity down to 40% or so; too much light intensity is considerably more damaging to coral than too little. Maintain your alkalinity/ca/magnesium values closely. If you don't have a dosing pump, consider purchasing and installing one. While it's not absolutely impossible to maintain SPS corals without a dosing pump, it's far more difficult. Perform daily alkalinity tests and precisely measured alk supplement dosing to keep the alkalinity rock-steady; calcium supplements should be dosed in proportion to the alkalinity supplement, but Ca level in the tank water can be measured every 3 days instead of every day as with the alk measurement.

Finally, increase the nutrient levels in your tank water by feeding your fish more heavily. You could also actually dose phosphate and nitrate as inorganic chemicals to your tank water, though that's typically considered a more advanced technique that isn't typically advised for new reefers.

 

[Rick D]

That's actually a fairly common reaction for montipora plate coral. I've a colony that's been in a small 20g tank for about 5 years. I maintain this tank by replacing about 50% of the ASW once every month or so (this was originally intended as a live rock holding tank, not as an official "reef", and the montipora was a volunteer). That coral does precisely what you describe - it will start showing white patches where the tissue between the polyps has eroded away that slowly grows worse over the month interval between water changes. Once the water change is performed, it's back to health within a few days.

It's not at all clear to me what is causing this. It's unlikely to be alk/calcium swings since as an experiment I closely maintained the alk/ca numbers by daily testing and dosing with 2-part solutions, but to no avail.

It's true that the general rule of thumb is to wait a bit longer to add SPS to a new system, but of course that advice doesn't help you much at the moment. One effect that is fairly well established in reef tanks is that high light intensity and very low nutrients tends to make SPS coral's colors fade over a few weeks, then completely bleach and die over a two to three day period (sometimes overnight). This effect is particularly pronounced if the alkalinity is kept on the high end, though that's not the case in your tank.

My advice would be as follows: reduce your light intensity down to 40% or so; too much light intensity is considerably more damaging to coral than too little. Maintain your alkalinity/ca/magnesium values closely. If you don't have a dosing pump, consider purchasing and installing one. While it's not absolutely impossible to maintain SPS corals without a dosing pump, it's far more difficult. Perform daily alkalinity tests and precisely measured alk supplement dosing to keep the alkalinity rock-steady; calcium supplements should be dosed in proportion to the alkalinity supplement, but Ca level in the tank water can be measured every 3 days instead of every day as with the alk measurement.

Finally, increase the nutrient levels in your tank water by feeding your fish more heavily. You could also actually dose phosphate and nitrate as inorganic chemicals to your tank water, though that's typically considered a more advanced technique that isn't typically advised for new reefers.

Thank you so much for your reply man.
I'm going to test alk every day when I'm back from work.
Also will turn down the lights to 40%.

I'm using a 4 channel dosing pump, and running DSR EZ.
But at the moment I'm just dosing Carbon + Alkalinty + PH buffer

When the Calcium drop's I will dose Calcium + Trace.

I hope the other SPS coral will also extend there polips.

Kind Regards, Rick

 

[Rick D]

If you want SPS in a system started with 100% dry rock wait 18 months. If not, expect high coral mortality.

I did not know this, but its not 100% dry rock more like 60%.
But Im sure im not buying anymore corals untill the issue is completely gone.

 

[Cell]

Consider renting a par meter.

 

[Rick D]

Consider renting a par meter.

That tought has gone trough my head a couple of times now... I will check mij LFS whats possible.
Thanks for the tip!

 

[fachatga]

I’m getting the feeling par meter will solve your problems too. I would expect they should be able to grow. When you did water change were your lights on? That can burn them if they’re at the top and you drain when the lights are on.

 

[Rick D]

I’m getting the feeling par meter will solve your problems too. I would expect they should be able to grow. When you did water change were your lights on? That can burn them if they’re at the top and you drain when the lights are on.

Yes the lights are on when changing, but the problem starts to occur after a week.
So If i change today, tomorrow the whitespots are leaving.
The day after there all gone, after a few more days they will come back.

Not to mention that some of the SPS are not extending polips also.
Check the pic below.

The red arrow points to a sps coral with white polips.
This one was fully open at the beginning, now its almost fully closed.

The other red arrows points to a Montipora branching coral, which unfortunatly broke off.
But I kept the piece there, and strange thing that is doing better than the other piece above.

The green arrows are pointing to corals which are doing better I guess, they will open normaly.
But no growth seen yet, so I guess they also not happy.

But after turning down the lights to 50% I think I noticed a little bit more extension.
I had turned them on 40% but there was almost no light anymore.
If this keeps improving I may turn it down more.

 

[Screwgunner]

I am back up to 100% blues and 15% white red green . I am 18 inches off the water.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

FYI, you might already know this, but Bulk Reef Supply will rent a PAR meter if you choose not to spend the $$$ for one of your own. That, by the way, is one issue with LED lighting that wasn't present when lights were almost all halide/fluorescent, which is judging illumination intensity by the "look" of the tank. Because LEDs are highly intense point sources, unlike fluorescents and halides, you can actually drive LED light fixtures to WAY above the generally recommended 200-400 PAR based on the tank's appearance alone.

 

[Rick D]

FYI, you might already know this, but Bulk Reef Supply will rent a PAR meter if you choose not to spend the $$$ for one of your own. That, by the way, is one issue with LED lighting that wasn't present when lights were almost all halide/fluorescent, which is judging illumination intensity by the "look" of the tank. Because LEDs are highly intense point sources, unlike fluorescents and halides, you can actually drive LED light fixtures to WAY above the generally recommended 200-400 PAR based on the tank's appearance alone.

Thanks for the reaction, have to mention that I live in Holland... So I guess they dont rent to me hahahaha

I'm thinking to buy this Seneye Reef (v2) which has a par meter inside.

 

[Manny’s Reef]

Just a few thoughts. Do you have any coral that releases long sweeper tentacles? Something like a Hollywood stunner chalice? And I noticed you have a dragon wrasse. Could it be that the wrasse is damaging the coral by trying to move it? They are well known for moving coral.