SPS tank doing poorly - could ph be the problem, or indicate a problem?

[rocknut]

So, my one year old SPS tank was doing really, really good up until April of this year, and then it experienced a rash of bad luck that I am still trying to bring it out of. The nutshell version is this: because I was running EcoBak biopellets, and seeing a lightening of colors in the SPS, I decided to start dosing amino acids (probably too much), and this triggered an algae bloom of either cyano or dinos, still not 100% sure. Obviously, I can't be totally sure that it was the aminos that triggered this bloom, but it seems to make the most sense to me. To battle the algae outbreak, I bumped up the amount of EcoBak pellets, and added a lot of GFO, as well as did the recommended 3 day black out. This seemed to knock out about 90% of the algae, but the combination of stripping nutrients from the tank, and the lights out caused a reduction in alk uptake by the corals, and a spike in my alk number even after reducing my dose by 50%, and this caused burned tips, base recession, etc.

Over the last 5 weeks I have slowly brought my lights back up (adding about an hour each week, starting from 2 hours a day), and have stabilized my parameters, bumped up water changes trying to bring everything back into balance. I have also totally removed GFO, and have reduced the amount of EcoBak pellets in the tank.

I really haven't seen much of an improvement in the last month, and am a little concerned. I wouldn't expect the corals to be colored up and growing yet, but at the least would hope to see them stabilize, and not continue to recede, etc? As I go down the list of possible issues I have been trying to tick things off one by one, and pH is still on my list. I have noticed that my pH is running about 7.5 at night with the lights out, and doesn't go above 7.9 even with all the lights on. Because of my reduced alk and calcium demand at the moment I have turned off my doser, and am now running a Kalk reactor set to dose 75ml every 3 hours, so 600 ml/day. This has held my levels stable (7.4 dkh alk, and 430 calcium), but I haven't noticed any difference with my pH number? I have calibrated my probe several times, and it appears to be correct? I do live in Arizona, so with the 108 degree days, opened up the window isn't really an option, and I don't have means of running my skimmer air supply out doors. However, I would think that even in a closed house, running without a calcium reactor, and dosing kalk I should be getting a higher pH number? Like I said, I am trying to tick off any possible issues one at a time, and would really like to get some opinions on this.

Here are my tank numbers as of last night:

Alk - 7.4 dkh (Hanna meter, Salifert test kit)
CA - 430 ppm (Salifert)
MG - 1350 ppm (Salifert)
PO4 - 0.025 (Hanna ULR Phosphorus meter) - this has remained stable, and even dropped after removing my GFO
NO3 - 4 (Red Sea) after reducing the amount of EcoBak pellets this number has slowly risen from undetectable to current level. Was concerned I was stripping too many nutrients before.
Salinity - 32 ppt (VeeGee refractometer) discovered that this number was low because of wet skimming during algae bloom. Raising this slowly back to 35.
Temp - with chiller this runs between 80 and 81.
K - 420 (Salifert)

Here is a shot of one of the SPS corals:



Picture is not great, but you can see that the tissue looks "dry" and pale. Also recession along base.

Appreciate any help you can give.
Thanks,

Rocky

 

[rocknut]

Realize that my above post is kind of all over the place. :squigglemouth: Just to distill this down: could a low pH like I am experiencing - 7.5 lights out, up to maybe 7.9 light on - be contributing to the SPS problems I am experiencing? I know that one of the first things I read about when discussing how to fight dinoflagellates is to raise pH using kalk. Since I can't seem to even break 8.0 even WITH kalk, could this acidic water be a factor? Be pointing to some other chemistry imbalance? I believe that my alk and calcium are close to being in balance: 7.4 dkh, and 430 ppm? Thanks!

 

[Newb_reefer1]

3 day black out with sps they probobly aren't too happy....

 

[rocknut]

3 day black out with sps they probobly aren't too happy....

Totally agree. I read quite a few threads from people that were battling dinos, and a disturbing number ended with people putting all their live rock in buckets, and totally starting over. With this in mind, I figured risking losing some, or all, of my SPS was probably worth the risk. However, in the past when I have had a rough patch, stabilizing my water parameters, and doubling up on water changes has at least pointed the tank back in the right direction, and have usually seen some improvement, however slow. 5 weeks since brings my light back on (slowly), and stabilizing my water levels, I'm just not seeing any real improvement. So, like I said, I want to look at every possibility so I can either rule it out, or look closer.

 

[rocknut]

One other observation that doesn't add up: I have seen double the amount of coralline algae growth in the last 5 weeks. Confused that the water quality will promote the growth of coralline, but the corals have come to a halt?

 

[b_rad_G]

I am suspicious of the pH number. I don't see any reason it should be 7.5. I wouldn't worry about the pH.

The corals are doing poorly because of lack of stability recently. Get back to stable and give them time.

If your pH really is 7.5 (I really doubt this) it would cause problems. It is getting close to the point where calcium carbonate will dissolve. I'm not 100% sure of the exact number but it seems like 7.4?

 

[rocknut]

Thanks B_rad. Maybe my probe is bad? I used two totally separate reference solutions: the pinpoint 7.0 and 10.0 solutions, and my Profilux 7.0 and 9.0 solutions, but if the probe itself is bad, I guess the solutions I use to calibrate don't really make any difference?

 

[that Reef Guy]

I am suspicious of the pH number. I don't see any reason it should be 7.5. I wouldn't worry about the pH.

The corals are doing poorly because of lack of stability recently. Get back to stable and give them time.

If your pH really is 7.5 (I really doubt this) it would cause problems. It is getting close to the point where calcium carbonate will dissolve. I'm not 100% sure of the exact number but it seems like 7.4?

I too am worried as I have Low PH (7.8 to 8.1)

What exactly is Calcium Carbonate?

What happens when it dissolves like you say?

I myslef am looking at adding PH Buffer to raise my PH.

Will that bring out the Color in my Corals? They seem Faded and not Bright and Vivid like other people Corals are.

Is there anything negative that I have to worry about if I am to dose PH Buffer or is it totally safe?

 

[rocknut]

I believe that pH buffer will also raise your alk.

 

[Dan1789]

Low PH isn't bad, as long as it's consistent. Just remember stable is better than the "magic" number

 

[capchad03]

Check for pests (red bugs) very closely. I had a very similar problem and it turned out to be red bugs. I chased numbers,lighting,flow for weeks and weeks and it turned out to be red bugs. I didn't notice them until my last surviving coral was covered in them.

 

[aslmx]

Check for pests (red bugs) very closely. I had a very similar problem and it turned out to be red bugs. I chased numbers,lighting,flow for weeks and weeks and it turned out to be red bugs. I didn't notice them until my last surviving coral was covered in them.

do red bugs have to be introduced to a tank with new rock or frags? Or can they come out of nowhere? Just wondering,

 

[capchad03]

With new frags. In my case I dipped all of my frags, unfortunately dips don't do much for them or the eggs. I would pull the frag out and inspect it really well if you get your parameters right and it still looks bad it could be a pest stressing it out.

 

[capchad03]

 

[ritter6788]

Sounds like you have too much going on at once.

Dosing aminos
Biopellets and gfo
Kalk and dosing pumps.

Take some of the variables out and start over with a basic system. Anytime I had trouble with my tank I go back to basics.

 

[ronnie]

I like basics as well.

No pellets
No GFO

Just water changes and maintain calcium and alk.

 

[rocknut]

Sounds like you have too much going on at once.

Dosing aminos
Biopellets and gfo
Kalk and dosing pumps.

Take some of the variables out and start over with a basic system. Anytime I had trouble with my tank I go back to basics.

Thanks, Ritter. I have actually pulled the GFO (about a month ago) and reduced my biopellets down to about 30% of their original volume (last week) hoping to do exactly what you are suggesting. I also stopped my 2 part dosing and am using my doser to add 600 ml of RO/DI thru my kalk reactor. In its current state, the kalk is maintaining my alk at 7.4 and my calcium at 430. I am still wrestling with pulling the biopellets all together, but figure the limited amount probably isn't hurting anything, but maybe I should just pull them altogether until things improve. Thanks again for your feedback, and let me know if you would suggest any further changes.

 

[PsychedeliKoral]

Sounds like they've been through A LOT of changes of changes in a short period of time which is a biiig no no with sps or any reef inhabitants for that matter. I would recommend in the future to make only ONE change at a time and see how it affects your system. By doing what you did and making many changes at once you made it almost impossible on yourself to pinpoint exactly which change had a negative outcome for your system. By the looks of that colony I would be very surprised if that one bounces back; chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on. Remember to make changes SLOWLY and if possible only one change at a time and then OBSERVE OBSERVE OBSERVE.

 

[rocknut]

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, and offering your help, PsychedeliKoral. Yes, I'm sure you are correct. Honestly, the dinos (or the cyano, still not 100% sure) really threw me off, and I figured without drastic action I was going to lose the tank, according to several threads I read. Anyway, with where I am at now, any suggestions going forward? Just keep up the water changes and keep the water parameters stable, then just see what happens? If I pull the biopellets completely, then that is just one more change, so not really sure what to do moving forward? Uuggghhh.

 

[Piranhapat]

Your Ph is fine. Some tanks will just run that way. If you dose two parts soda ash will raise Alk and also help raise the Ph up a little. But is your phosphate 0.25?
If so that is high for SPS. Nothing wrong with running GFO if used right way. Your salinity going down and not a stable Alk will cause the results your seeing. Don't expect to see colors that once were unlit your water pars are stable. It will take some time. As long your not seeing tissue lost on SPS. Make slow changes not a quick fixes. But main concern I see is your phosphate . Don't get to much caught up with to much nutrients right now. If your battling cyano just remove it and try to not do many water changes. Shutting off the lights does do much. Some will tell you can add bacteria to help with cyano. Work on dropping phosphate and maintaining it and slowly you will see colors come back.