Stabilizing Alkalinity & Calcium Levels - Help!

[samba_dad]

Which exact Red Sea products?

Maybe they are not intended to be equal parts of a two part.

I am using Reef Foundation A - Ca/Sr for my Ca supplement and Reef Foundation B - Alk for my alkalinity supplement.

 

[samba_dad]

Which exact Red Sea products?

Maybe they are not intended to be equal parts of a two part.

I am using Reef Foundation A - Ca/Sr for my Ca supplement and Reef Foundation B - Alk for my alkalinity supplement.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You are correct. For whatever reason, they have not designed them for equal parts dosing and the calcium part is more potent.

 

[samba_dad]

Awesome - thanks! At least now I know one of the primary reasons I have not been able to stabilize Ca.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Here's what I mean about it not being designed for equal parts dosing...

The demand for calcium and alkalinity in calcification is about 18-20 ppm calcium (depending on how much magnesium is incorporated) for each 1 meq/L (2.8 dKH) of alkalinity.

The Red Sea products claim:

http://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-a/
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the Ca level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 2ppm.

http://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-b/
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the alkalinity of 100 liters (25gal) by 0.036 meq/l (0.1dKH)

So that 1 mL per 25 gallon dose adds 2 ppm calcium and 0.036 meq/L alkalinity, which is a ratio of 56 ppm calcium for each 1 meq/L, or ~2.8 times too potent for calcium.

 

[120reefkeeper]

Great thread.... Following...

 

[samba_dad]

I've started testing alkalinity every day with a Hannah test kit. I've been able to stabilize the alkalinity.

I've been having a horrible time getting consistent calcium readings from the Red Sea pro test kit. I think I may have mixed the Ca and Alk syringes. So, I ordered a Ca refill kit and I will see how that goes.

So, I really have to say that I have very mixed opinions of the Red Sea reef products. PO4 and Mg test kits appear useless for me. I switched to Salifert for Mg and Ca testing. That way I can at least double check my Red Sea Ca readings.

Also, I am planning on switching to B-Ionic 2-part because it is a balanced dosing solution - as compared to Red Sea. My thought is to get my Ca & Alk set correctly, test Alk daily and adjust dosing to keep it locked at 9ppm. It will cost me more but the known stability will be worth it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Also, I am planning on switching to B-Ionic 2-part because it is a balanced dosing solution - as compared to Red Sea. My thought is to get my Ca & Alk set correctly, test Alk daily and adjust dosing to keep it locked at 9ppm. It will cost me more but the known stability will be worth it.

That certainly seems like a fine plan. B-ionic is a good product. You could also consider a DIY two part.

FWIW, a lot of people have issues with the Red Sea magnesium kit.

 

[samba_dad]

Sincere thanks for everything Randy! You really are having a remarkable positive impact on a tremendous number of fellow hobbyists. I am a college professor in electrical engineering and find great joy in helping students learn and be successful. I can only believe you are of a similar nature because of all of the great work you are doing for this most fascinating of topics. In my mind, reef keeping is a perfect mixture of chemistry, biology and physics (with some EE - lol). That is why this group of hobbyists tends to be well educated or on their way to being well educated. That is certainly why I seem to spend so much time being fascinated with this endeavor - its hands on application of all of the theory. Thanks again for the remarkable impact you are having across this hobby!

Just curious - is the BRS 2-part your recipe? If so, I will switch to the "master's" recipe. The funny thing is I started with BRS 2-part and switched to the Red Sea line. Only after having problems while using Red Sea have I discovered the real issues I am having. Rock solid at 9dkH for multiple weeks now!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Sincere thanks for everything Randy! You really are having a remarkable positive impact on a tremendous number of fellow hobbyists. I am a college professor in electrical engineering and find great joy in helping students learn and be successful. I can only believe you are of a similar nature because of all of the great work you are doing for this most fascinating of topics. In my mind, reef keeping is a perfect mixture of chemistry, biology and physics (with some EE - lol). That is why this group of hobbyists tends to be well educated or on their way to being well educated. That is certainly why I seem to spend so much time being fascinated with this endeavor - its hands on application of all of the theory. Thanks again for the remarkable impact you are having across this hobby!

Just curious - is the BRS 2-part your recipe? If so, I will switch to the "master's" recipe. The funny thing is I started with BRS 2-part and switched to the Red Sea line. Only after having problems while using Red Sea have I discovered the real issues I am having. Rock solid at 9dkH for multiple weeks now!

Thanks very much. I do enjoy helping others!

No, the BRS recipe is not mine. As far as I know, it was the first such product many years ago, and the folks there (e.g., Bob Stark, who the the B of B-ionic is named after) have a good handle on chemistry to be able to design a good product. I've never seen an analysis of it or any two part, but they say the right things about its contents.

I came up with my DIY a few years later for folks who wanted to make a much cheaper product, and who also likely do not have access to all the ingredients needed for a "full" recipe. So for that reason, I expect that B-ionic is a more complete recipe and if that is a goal, I'd use it or one from another company that you trust to have a good understanding of chemistry (my list in that respect is, unfortunately, shorter than one might hope).

Some folks have asked about other ingredients, and various threads have recently looked into other additives to the recipe to make it more complete, such as adding potassium chloride to it.