Stabilizing Alkalinity & Calcium Levels - Help!

[Berlibee]

*Your

Ahahahahah nice ! Autocorrect wasn't me !

 

[Sabellafella]

If you dont see a change test the next day at the same time, or the next next day untill u see a drop then dose from there,

Thanks Sabellafella for the response! I have stopped dosing for 4 days and taken an average reading. I get 17.5ppm/day Ca, 0.8dKH/day Alk and 10ppm/day Mg. How do these numbers compare to your tank? I dose every 30 mins with my Apex and the results I referenced were with the dosing matching these consumption rates. I am at a loss.

No prob, i used to be a calc reactor man bac in the days but always find myself back to dosing nd doing waterchanges , my tank consumes ruffly 25ppm calc and 3 dkh a day and thats just from frags, so im constantly adding corals now nd having to keep tinkering with my dos pumps, i use esv bionic 2 part, its more concentrated then the standard formula, on a 200 gallon i dose 60 ml , a 30 gallon i dose 5 ml and currently im tuning my dose on a 450L at about 25 ml ALL EQUAL parts

 

[Sabellafella]

I started dosing mag on my 200 a little while ago because i couldnt really do large enuff with water changes so if you could keep up with it with water changes,i wouldnt suggest you should dose the 3rd part unless the reef foundation method is like a balling method then yea, also you dont need to have a perfectly precise dose right right away, As long as your in the ballpark of your daily/weekly uptake you should be fine, then after a week or 2 if you see your alk creepin up then you could fine tune your dosing

 

[ngvu1]

You asked a million dollars question. If there is/were a simple answer for that, reefing would be a piece of cake and most people would have beautiful tanks without much work....MindStream would have been coming out with their products since 2013. I think it is case by case and it requires regular measure and adjust.

Back to your situation, since RSCP salt has very concentration of all parameters, every time you do a water change, your parameters, ALK specially, will swing a lot depending on how much percentage of your water change. People that dose, often as I have seen switch to IO due to this reason. You need to see how much your corals consume and adjust/dose to that. When corals grow, it does happen quite often , your daily consumption changes too. It is a lot of work and it gets harder over a long period of time. Most reefers I think know this, but people that are actually doing that, not many

 

[samba_dad]

*Your

Yes - refractometer and Apex probe match salinity values. I calibrate the Apex monthly and refractometer at every measurement with a 35ppt test solution. Thank you for the help!

 

[samba_dad]

How much of what are you dosing, and what happens if you dose more?

I do 4 water changes per day of about 1 gal. I do a weekly water change of 17%. It is a bit higher than expected because I pull water from the DT to supply my FQT. I keep water changes high to ensure I do not have ammonia problems in my FQT.

I will target 9 dKH for Alk and keep my Ca dosing level equal to my Alk dosing level. I will test daily and see if this addresses my issue. I will keep posting my progress on this thread. Many thanks Randy. You have helped me multiple times improve my reef keeping!

 

[kewadiak]

You asked a million dollar question. If there is/were a simple answer for that, reefing would be a piece of cake and most people would have beautiful tanks without much work....MindStream would have been coming out with their products since 2013. I think it is case by case and it requires regular measure and adjust.

Back to your situation, since RSCP salt has very concentration of all parameters, every time you do a water change, your parameters, ALK specially, will swing a lot depending on how much percentage of your water change. People that dose, often as I have seen switch to IO due to this reason. You need to see how much your corals consume and adjust/dose to that. When corals grow, it does happen quite often , your daily consumption changes too. It is a lot of work and it gets harder over a long period of time. Most reefers I think know this, but people that are actually doing that, not many

If you have say a 300 gallon tank and you would like to use io salt and say with lower parameters of calcium and alkalinity and mag, and you do a large water change of 50 gallons do most people dose the io in the mixing container before doing the water change or would you dose your system the next day and your parameters would swing?

 

[ngvu1]

LOL, it depends..... On many factors. TBH, I have never had a tank that big and has never water change that much, so I don't know.

If you have say a 300 gallon tank and you would like to use io salt and say with lower parameters of calcium and alkalinity and mag, and you do a large water change of 50 gallons do most people dose the io in the mixing container before doing the water change or would you dose your system the next day and your parameters would swing?

 

[tonkaoz]

Ok thats great i thought i was over dosing . Im using reef fusion 2 and had some continum calcium and magnesium left over . Im gonna raise my alk dose up . Appreciate the advice . Hopefully it will help

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you have say a 300 gallon tank and you would like to use io salt and say with lower parameters of calcium and alkalinity and mag, and you do a large water change of 50 gallons do most people dose the io in the mixing container before doing the water change or would you dose your system the next day and your parameters would swing?

I use it as is without doing anything.

IO is not that low if you mix to 35 ppt (sg = 1.0264). Alk and magnesium are fine. Calcium may be a bit low, but depending on how you supplement calcium and alkalinity, that can be a plus (like my case, where I use only limewater which tends to raise calcium slowly over time).

Previously, before they raised the levels of calcium and magnesium a few years back, I did boost it in the barrel with Dowflake and MagFlake for calcium and magnesium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I will target 9 dKH for Alk and keep my Ca dosing level equal to my Alk dosing level. I will test daily and see if this addresses my issue. I will keep posting my progress on this thread. Many thanks Randy. You have helped me multiple times improve my reef keeping!

You're welcome.

Good luck!

 

[kewadiak]

I use it as is without doing anything.

IO is not that low if you mix to 35 ppt (sg = 1.0264). Alk and magnesium are fine. Calcium may be a bit low, but depending on how you supplement calcium and alkalinity, that can be a plus (like my case, where I use only limewater which tends to raise calcium slowly over time).

Previously, before they raised the levels of calcium and magnesium a few years back, I did boost it in the barrel with Dowflake and MagFlake for calcium and magnesium.

Thank you, now I get a little confused on how two part works. I have the two part from BRS, for example I did a large 100 Gallon water change, I then tested my tank my alk was 9.6 and my calcium was 420 to raise calcium back up two 440 I only need to use the calcium chloride is that correct. Not to derail this thread but this is where I have trouble under standing how to stabilize a tank? Or if I mix io up and I need to raise calcium from 380 to 440 I just dump the one part in, calcium chloride?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you, now I get a little confused on how two part works. I have the two part from BRS, for example I did a large 100 Gallon water change, I then tested my tank my alk was 9.6 and my calcium was 420 to raise calcium back up two 440 I only need to use the calcium chloride is that correct. Not to derail this thread but this is where I have trouble under standing how to stabilize a tank? Or if I mix io up and I need to raise calcium from 380 to 440 I just dump the one part in, calcium chloride?

That is correct. Just calcium chloride is useful for such corrections. Such corrections of only calcium (and not alkalinity) should not arise often except if water changes cause it.

For routine maintenance, use the two part in an amount to maintain alkalinity, and typically add the same amount of calcium. Then if calcium seems to be drifting up or down too much (not after 1 or 2 days, but a week or two of multiple readings), make another correction or modify the regular dose.

 

[huskerreefatl]

Thanks Randy for the response. I always value your input. I don't know if I have a specific alkalinity target number in mind - I just want my SPS happy - colorful and growing. According to the Red Sea Reef Care Program they suggest an alkalinity of 12.2 dKH for rapid growth of SPS frags. That is way high from most of what I read. Right now I have an LPS dominated tank (torch, hammer, frogspawn, leather, etc) with some soft mushrooms, polys & zoas that are all doing really well and growing. My tank is predominately frags with some of the LPS getting fist size. I have some SPS frags doing well also (setosa, psammacora). However, I am having acros turn brown then white and RTN most within 2 weeks of purchase. I have been working on getting my NO3 and PO4 up a bit and think I have been mostly successful there - without dosing the stump remover. I was running too clean with close to zero NO3 & PO4 levels according to my Red Sea Pro kits. I basically accomplished this rise by putting the skimmer on a timer and only letting it run I also have a PAR meter on order to ensure my spectrum is correct for my 2x XR15W Pro. Based upon those readings, I may augment with some T5 (blue+ and coral+) later. I am using 2x RW4 from Jebao and the wavemaker to get about 23X turnover per hour of circulation. So, I am hoping stabilizing Ca & Alk (and to a lesser degree NO3 & PO4) is going to be the turning point for my reef keeping experience with SPS.

I currently dose Ca from 10:30pm - 10:29am every 30 minutes (total of 24 doses per day). I dose Alk from 10:30am-10:29pm every 30 minutes (total of 24 doses per day). I use an Apex and BRS 1.1mL/min dosing pumps for everything. I do ~2 gal of water changes per day (broken up into 4 WC with the Apex). This amounts to about 17%/week of my total water volume.

I maintain salinity through the Apex conductivity probe which is calibrated monthly and checked against a calibrated refractometer weekly. My salinity remains almost perfectly constant at 35ppt.

I have a Triton test on order to ensure I don't have anything bad in the water. However, only 0-1 TDS RO/DI water has ever entered this tank. My maintenance is very consistent with weekly testing, skimmer cleaning, daily water changes for ~1 year. I do run Phosban and carbon reactors on a manifold setup with my main pump.

Don't know if this is related - I just got back from a vacation and noticed a bit of red slime algae in my tank. First appearance I have had of that. My Gyre had recently broken (again) and I switched to 2x Jebao RW-4. So, my flow has not been real consistent over last 1.5 weeks.

Questions
1) If I target something different than 12.2 dKH with my Coral Pro Salt I think it will cause more problems for me - right?
2) What is the next step to get the Alk stabilized?
3) I have tried waiting 4 days without supplementing to measure my drop in Alk & Ca per the Red Sea program. At the end of the 4 days, I averaged the results to obtain daily average. I measured 17.5ppm/day Ca, 0.8 dKH/day Alk, 10ppm/day Mg. The Mg number really had me scratching my head - that seemed high to me. Do these other numbers look reasonable to you? These are all Red Sea Pro test kits.

I would reverse the dosing and do Ca in the daytime and alk at night. I am surprised if you aren't getting big PH swings since your PH is highest toward the end of your lighting cycle, assuming that you run the highest intensity in the afternoon. If there are PH swings, that could be an issue with some SPS.

 

[HenryReefer]

i use redsea pro also. when u use redsea pro it has higher levels than regular redsea. redsea pro is formulated for the accelerated growth program. i keep my levels at the recommended levels on the bucket of salt and on the redsea website. bring your levels to the recommended levels and then test daily for a week to see what your tank uses and add as needed then when u do water changes the levels will be the same.

 

[PSXerholic]

I must admit I am a little embarrassed asking this question, but I must be doing something terribly wrong with my 2-part dosing. I use Coral Pro Salt from Red Sea in my 65G tank. I am having an incredibly difficult time dialing in the correct 2-part dosage for my tank. Is there a method out there someone can point me to on how to arrive at the correct 2-part dosage amount so I can stop having massive Alk & Cal swings. My last 4 Alkalinity readings have been 9.2 (today), 10.6 (14 Dec), 14 (6 Dec), 8.8 (24 Nov). I keep trying to adjust my alkalinity dosing after each reading but just can't seem to get anywhere towards stable values. My last 4 Calcium readings have been 500 (today), 450 (14 Dec), 410 (6 Dec), 475 (24 Nov).

Should I always be using the same dosage for Ca and Alk for my 2-part? In other words, if I daily dose 48mL of Ca should I dose 48mL of Alk? I am using the Reef Foundation series of products for Ca, Alk & Mg. Some of my SPS seem to handle these swings just fine, other SPS RTN and die. My LPS seem to be doing well. I'm tired of killing SPS coral. Please help! Thanks for any help.

Red Sea Pro Test Kits
NH3 - 0 ppm
NO2 - 0 ppm
PO4 - 0.02 ppm
Ca - 500 ppm
Alk - 9.2 dKH
Mg - 1400 ppm
Salinity - 35 ppt
pH - 8.2
Temp - 76 deg

Hi,
I saw your text and noticed your parameter you are running and the first thing I thought was, this guy must loose a lot of SPS, which you confirmed in your thread.

I'm not getting into the two part since the others gave sufficient advise, especially Fowler.
Well, to the point, you are running ULNS, if the listed parameters are correct.

Please do get the Alk back to NSW levels around 8, to avoid Alk burn and RTN on SPS in your system.
It's not clear yet why that is, but higher Alk levels in ULNS cause this issue.

Running ULNS since a while I can confirm on my tanks that Alk above 9 is to be avoided.
And believe me, if you manage all relevant parameter including SR, Potassium and Iodine and good food and light, at slight elevated CA levels you can experience on some extremely fast growth!

Good luck.

 

[DeadheadSC]

Hi,
I saw your text and noticed your parameter you are running and the first thing I thought was, this guy must loose a lot of SPS, which you confirmed in your thread.

I'm not getting into the two part since the others gave sufficient advise, especially Fowler.
Well, to the point, you are running ULNS, if the listed parameters are correct.

Please do get the Alk back to NSW levels around 8, to avoid Alk burn and RTN on SPS in your system.
It's not clear yet why that is, but higher Alk levels in ULNS cause this issue.

Running ULNS since a while I can confirm on my tanks that Alk above 9 is to be avoided.
And believe me, if you manage all relevant parameter including SR, Potassium and Iodine and good food and light, at slight elevated CA levels you can experience on some extremely fast growth!

Good luck.

All true. I think it's important to note that maintaining .02 to .04 PO4 and 1-2 ppm NO3 is really important for running that super high alk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If there are PH swings, that could be an issue with some SPS.

Have you seen that yourself?
I've not heard of issues that were clearly from the pH swing itself.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Please do get the Alk back to NSW levels around 8, to avoid Alk burn and RTN on SPS in your system.
It's not clear yet why that is, but higher Alk levels in ULNS cause this issue.

I agree that it is not clear why, but one hypothesis is that coral skeleton growth outpaces the growth of tissue, leading to undesirably thin tissue at the tips.

 

[huskerreefatl]

Have you seen that yourself?
I've not heard of issues that were clearly from the pH swing itself.

I have not since I avoid large ph swings but i have read in the past to avoid them since fish and inverts tend to not like them. My biggest swing may be 0.2 in a 24 hour period. Many dosing discussions talk about dosing alk at night since that is the lowest ph period.