Stands

[David Abbott]

Perhaps this could help. According to your plan description you will have 306 square inches of contact between the bottom of your stand to the floor. The next big question is how much weight will the stand be holding. Then a simple equation of WEIGHT divided by 306 will equal how much weight per square inch the floor will be seeing directly under where the stand contacts the floor. This assumes the stand is flush with the floor. I don't know the quality of your cement floor but if I were to hazard a guess I would say you should be okay. Good luck.

Hey Reefer, if i was to weld a 3"x 4" x 60" all around the bottom of the stand, that should put this question to sleep. YES/NO

 

[Mattman1977]

Well I’m not sure what the strength of the concrete is where you’re at but most concrete in the states are at minimum 2500psi in 30 days of being poured. Anything less then that it would be crumbling. Most residents around my neck of the woods is breaks at 3000psi in 30 days and most go well beyond that. Yeah commercial jobs they take test cylinders of concrete take them back to there lab and crush them and record what they break at.

If this is your house you could have a company come out core a sample and break it that way you would know. But I would have to suspect you would be fine maybe do a test run with freshwater for a month or so checking it for level every week. Then drain and check the foundation

Just my thoughts. Been in the concrete pouring side of it for 20 years but by far a engineer.

Happy reefing
Matt

 

[David Abbott]

Well I’m not sure what the strength of the concrete is where you’re at but most concrete in the states are at minimum 2500psi in 30 days of being poured. Anything less then that it would be crumbling. Most residents around my neck of the woods is breaks at 3000psi in 30 days and most go well beyond that. Yeah commercial jobs they take test cylinders of concrete take them back to there lab and crush them and record what they break at.

If this is your house you could have a company come out core a sample and break it that way you would know. But I would have to suspect you would be fine maybe do a test run with freshwater for a month or so checking it for level every week. Then drain and check the foundation

Just my thoughts. Been in the concrete pouring side of it for 20 years but by far a engineer.

Happy reefing
Matt

Hey Matt, as you I've been in the construction business for 34 yrs. in Ft. Lauderdale Fl. until I retired. All the houses here are built with concrete block, with tie beams every 5th block up to the top tie beam. I'm just not sure of the quality of the concrete mix in the slab.......Thanks for the reply Matt

 

[Mattman1977]

That kind of sounds like the way they do schools around here. The schools here they pour footers then set the cinder blocks. Then pour to grade in between the blocks. But the edges of the slabs are definitely sitting on top the outer footer and depending on how large the area is there are footers in the middle, all depends on the engineers. I myself would do a test with tap water for a few months to check if the tank moves.

Best of luck

Happy reefing
Matt

 

[David Abbott]

That kind of sounds like the way they do schools around here. The schools here they pour footers then set the cinder blocks. Then pour to grade in between the blocks. But the edges of the slabs are definitely sitting on top the outer footer and depending on how large the area is there are footers in the middle, all depends on the engineers. I myself would do a test with tap water for a few months to check if the tank moves.

Best of luck

Happy reefing
Matt

But there they drill holes and epoxy #5 rods 3 or 4" or so into the stem wall and 1 ft. or so protruding into the slab. yeah, already thought of that to get the proper water flow going before I start the cycling process. Always a good Idea to plan ahead and and ask questions about things I know nothing about.

 

[Reefer Reboot]

Sorry it took me a couple of days to get back to you David. You're welcome for the info. I don't quite understand what you are envisioning when you talk about a 3"x 4" x 60". The length and width that run parallel to the floor where it makes contact are the only pertinent dimensions for your question. The height does not matter. I would ask which two measurements are contacting the floor but as you can see the weight is already pretty well distributed out as planned. (If you do want to know I can easily calculate it for you.) Just don't go putting the whole thing up on four small feet like a lot of smaller tank stands are. That would greatly increase the load per square inch which might crush or at least chip the cement under the feet, which could lead to "unleveledness", which could lead to.......... don't even want to think of it let alone say it out loud.

 

[David Abbott]

Sorry it took me a couple of days to get back to you David. You're welcome for the info. I don't quite understand what you are envisioning when you talk about a 3"x 4" x 60". The length and width that run parallel to the floor where it makes contact are the only pertinent dimensions for your question. The height does not matter. I would ask which two measurements are contacting the floor but as you can see the weight is already pretty well distributed out as planned. (If you do want to know I can easily calculate it for you.) Just don't go putting the whole thing up on four small feet like a lot of smaller tank stands are. That would greatly increase the load per square inch which might crush or at least chip the cement under the feet, which could lead to "unleveledness", which could lead to.......... don't even want to think of it let alone say it out loud.

Not a problem, My description was not clear. When I said 3" x 4" I ment 3" "OR" 4". As I can't find any tubing 1 1/2" x 4", I decided to get another 1 1/2" and weld them together to make 1 piece 3" x 1 1/2 around the entire base with an 2 more 1 1/2" x 3" spaced evenly in the center of the base. so.......with doubling the area in contact with the floor, I should be good??? I've been getting a lot of different info from a lot of different people. It sounds like you have "Been there and done that with aquarium's", so I would like to bounce my questions off of you if thats ok with you. I have always wanted a nice aquarium, now's my chance that i'm retired. THANKS I sent a hand drawing of what my plan is

 

[David Abbott]

Sorry it took me a couple of days to get back to you David. You're welcome for the info. I don't quite understand what you are envisioning when you talk about a 3"x 4" x 60". The length and width that run parallel to the floor where it makes contact are the only pertinent dimensions for your question. The height does not matter. I would ask which two measurements are contacting the floor but as you can see the weight is already pretty well distributed out as planned. (If you do want to know I can easily calculate it for you.) Just don't go putting the whole thing up on four small feet like a lot of smaller tank stands are. That would greatly increase the load per square inch which might crush or at least chip the cement under the feet, which could lead to "unleveledness", which could lead to.......... don't even want to think of it let alone say it out loud.

I used internet calculation charts to figure glass, water, sump glass and water, rocks and sand etc. came up with 3500 lb's. So if i had 306 sq. " before that should double??

 

[Reefer Reboot]

So as I understand this you are going to have a three inch wide beam that will be in contact with the floor in the 60" x 24" configuration with two cross beams, as in the worms eye view sketch above. That now gives you 576 square inches of contact surface. 3,500 lbs / 576 = just over 6 lbs/sq.in. If this slab is directly on the ground, even if the slab was made of sandstone, IMHO, I think it would hold no problem. ;Happy

 

[David Abbott]

So as I understand this you are going to have a three inch wide beam that will be in contact with the floor in the 60" x 24" configuration with two cross beams, as in the worms eye view sketch above. That now gives you 576 square inches of contact surface. 3,500 lbs / 576 = just over 6 lbs/sq.in. If this slab is directly on the ground, even if the slab was made of sandstone, IMHO, I think it would hold no problem. ;Happy

Yes exactly, I hate to sound petty but..... "measure twice, cut once" is my credo. well now i guess i'm ready to order the glass!! I have some questions about the overflow box but thats about 1 or 2 weeks out. Thanks REEFER. Be talking to ya later

 

[Reefer Reboot]

You're welcome. All questions are good questions. Good luck.

 

[David Abbott]

You're welcome. All questions are good questions. Good luck.

Hey reefer, David again. What is the proper joint thickness for 1/2" glass for silicon 1/16...1/8??. I'm asking because I'm ready to order the glass

 

[Reefer Reboot]

Sorry David, that question is out of my knowledge range. All my tanks are acrylic. Maybe you could ask that in one of the other forums, such as the General Equipment, Hardware, Filtration forum.

 

[David Abbott]

as I like the look of the exposed pipes of the tank, I've think this would be my choice, with the overflows on either side. I would like you to look at my drawing and give me your input. THANKs REEFER

 

[David Abbott]

Sorry David, that question is out of my knowledge range. All my tanks are acrylic. Maybe you could ask that in one of the other forums, such as the General Equipment, Hardware, Filtration forum.

OK appreciate your reply Reefer

 

[Reefer Reboot]

The return pipe size depends on the flow rate of your return pump if your looking to optimize the pipe size to the flow (i.e. make it as small as possible). It can get technical depending on whether the orifice opening is tapered or not and how much tare is involved. But the reality is you can throw all that out the window and just go with the largest you can for the added safety. Whatever the inlet size of the pump, be sure to go at least that size but preferably slightly larger . It looks like you are planning on four overflows lines to the sump. (You must really like the pipe look, kind of a steampunk type look?) With four lines you could run these smaller but keep in mind if one or more plugs up you will be restricting the flow back to the sump. If you do run smaller lines (not recommended IMO) make sure that the combined total inside diameter area of the four pipes is larger than that of the single pipe going into the return pump. Any connecting tees should be of the larger size.
As to how far down from the top of the overflow, that depends on whether you plan on using a riser pipe drain design like in a Bean Animal /Herbie / Durso type (in which case you will need to have enough depth for the required plumbing) or just straight out of the box (in which case you will want to have at the desired water depth in the DT).
Anybody else have any suggestions?

 

[David Abbott]

The return pipe size depends on the flow rate of your return pump if your looking to optimize the pipe size to the flow (i.e. make it as small as possible). It can get technical depending on whether the orifice opening is tapered or not and how much tare is involved. But the reality is you can throw all that out the window and just go with the largest you can for the added safety. Whatever the inlet size of the pump, be sure to go at least that size but preferably slightly larger . It looks like you are planning on four overflows lines to the sump. (You must really like the pipe look, kind of a steampunk type look?) With four lines you could run these smaller but keep in mind if one or more plugs up you will be restricting the flow back to the sump. If you do run smaller lines (not recommended IMO) make sure that the combined total inside diameter area of the four pipes is larger than that of the single pipe going into the return pump. Any connecting tees should be of the larger size.
As to how far down from the top of the overflow, that depends on whether you plan on using a riser pipe drain design like in a Bean Animal /Herbie / Durso type (in which case you will need to have enough depth for the required plumbing) or just straight out of the box (in which case you will want to have at the desired water depth in the DT).
Anybody else have any suggestions?

Well Reefer,......after staying up half the night reading about the 3 different types of overflows you sited, as this is my very first go at this and almost no knowledge of how the system works, except reading and looking at as many videos as I can for the past month. I think I should go for a simple configuration !!??!!. I have redrawn a new diagram to bounce off of you. Thanks for putting up with me!!!

 

[Reefer Reboot]

No problems, but before I try to assist on this one let me make sure I am understanding your sketch correctly. Your previous sketch had the overflows on each side of the tank and this current sketch now shows a "coast to coast" weir running along the entire back wall of the tank. (This is a cross section view looking from the side?) Is this correct?

 

[David Abbott]

No problems, but before I try to assist on this one let me make sure I am understanding your sketch correctly. Your previous sketch had the overflows on each side of the tank and this current sketch now shows a "coast to coast" weir running along the entire back wall of the tank. (This is a cross section view looking from the side?) Is this correct?

yes, exactly, except I don't know what height and width the overflow should be. A member by the name "Hitman" got me dialed in on the proper size bulkheads and pipe sizing down to the sump. And in an earlier post you told me that the intake diameter of the return pump should be the size of the return piping. So I should be looking for a pump with a 1" diameter at least. I see pumps in aquarium on line stores for lots of money compared to aquarium pumps from AMAZON. $100/200 difference.

 

[Reefer Reboot]

Okay, on the new design your DT level should be designed to go no lower than the bottom of the comb slots of the weir. So once you decide on a pump you will know what size plumbing to use. From there get the required bulkheads for that size pipe. To make it even better, you could put a 90 degree elbow pointed down towards the bottom of the weir from the bulkhead to minimize any slurping. Now make the weir deep enough to have the bulkhead and elbow completely below the bottom of the comb slots. On the plumbing downstream of the bulkhead, preferably just above the sump water level, install a gate valve to regulate the flow to the sump. You will also want an emergency drain stand pipe installed above the typical water level of the DT in case anything clogs the other pipe. I'll bet you've already got this figured out since you've read up on all the designs.