start cycle the tank-no amonia spike!

[dimidragos]

Hello, I start to cycle my 12og reef tank last week thursday. I start the tank with 75 lbs Real Reef Rock and 48 pound live sand. temperature 80F, 1,026 salinity. I add Seachem Stability and Brightwell Microbact7 each day one by one. I run the sump with feed pump and a Clarisea Sk5000. I use also two Tunze 9095 and Tunze ATO. I use a Deltec TC 2060 skimmer (except few hours after i add bacteria). I don't have any media or other type of filtration.
I have strange water parameter : 0 amonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate...From sunday i start with ghost feeding and i didn't see any change, yesterday i add a 2,5 inch shrimp, today one more....nothing
What i can do?? I don' t think i have any chance to buy pure amonia here and i don't want to use fish.
I start to reed more about this "Real Reef Rock " and some people write bad reviews. It's an US product, maybe some from here know better about and i can get some information...Rocks can be the problem?
The water it's pretty clan and i almost don't feel any small

Please help me with some informations

 

[recess62]

My advice would be to sit back and enjoy the ride. You are only 5 days into starting. You need to give the protein sources that you have put into your tank a chance to decay. One thing I would do is not run your skimmer. You do not want to be filtering anything right now. Your objective at this time is to establish your biofilter within your live rock and sand. I do t think you need to worry about anything yet

 

[dimidragos]

thanks, im not in hurry, or i'm in hurry but i want to do the things right. I reed many topics where people see amonia spikes from begine. About the skimmer i believe it's true what you told me but i get that advice from other people, they told me that new bacteria need oxigen and the skimmer it's an important source of oxygen.....

 

[dimidragos]

can i add bicarbonate of ammonia?

 

[recess62]

If you have any surface agitation from your return flow or power heads you should be getting plenty of gas exchange so you don’t need the bubbles from the skimmer. You should already have plenty of food in the tank for a cycle with the 2 shrimp. It just takes time for the shrimp to rot and begin feeding your cycle. Let’s see if anyone else will chime in. #reefsquad

 

[Diesel]

@recess62 hit the nail with his info.
Enjoy the right, turn skimmer off, stop dosing bacteria and let the system do it's thingie and get it ugly and nasty before it rewards you with a perfect cycled tank and you can slowly add your fishies and inverts.

 

[brandon429]

an exact procedure that will cycle that tank without any test kits, due to pics and details:

leave in this exact condition 30 days, so that surfaces build a biofilm.

at about day 10 remove shrimp, don't feed any more past today or you'll algae load this down and its not required, all is there that's required.

\at the end of 30 days do the biggest water change you are willing to do, so your initial algae battles are less, and begin. You'll cycle before this point due to that kind of rock, but 30 days is universal with these details and it allows for zero testing options because that's how long bacteria take to lay biofilms in water with any form of boost, and you have more than one form of boost in there, those rocks have some special characters.

*I just edited to say pull your shimp out at 10 days, this tank doesn't need ammonia help at all, whats provided is more than enough and bordering on being your first algae infestation cause. it needs hydration and time, specifically.

whatever any test kit you read other than normal temp and salinity has to say wont matter on this process. low, high, medium, absolute zero ammonia, exact same outcome at 30 days after the big water change, can start. If you had input rock that was white, and not painted in nitrifiers, advice would be diff

 

[cracker]

May I suggest You remove one shrimp. Once both stat to go it will literally stink up the whole house !

 

[brandon429]

agreed, and based on that I could vote for removing them all right now and leaving in only the feed. those rocks are designed to get ready fast, solely from hydration in the new tank. I agree the shrimp are helping nothing. somewhere in the last three pages of this thread is a section dedicated to real reef rock, and a few tracked out examples.

Todays information on cycling is too generalized and doesn't cater to the exact substrates being used, which is required because when people buy true live rock crawling with animals, to go home and add any form of ammonia past normal feeds on purpose in order to build bac (which are already there, and rode home just fine to the new tank) is completely wrong for the substrate in hand, and small crustaceans we paid $ for don't like nor need that ammonia spike. ammonia spikes are only used in dry substrate cycling.


ammonia spiking is for dry white rock, you've also added nitrifiers by the sand being wet as well...anything wet when you get it/has bac.

time and submersion all that is required here.

a neat facet of cycling, is that anyone's claim/prognostication about them is easily tested, but not with a shrimp, with ammonium chloride.

no short reads today:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

 

[dimidragos]

If you have any surface agitation from your return flow or power heads you should be getting plenty of gas exchange so you don’t need the bubbles from the skimmer. You should already have plenty of food in the tank for a cycle with the 2 shrimp. It just takes time for the shrimp to rot and begin feeding your cycle. Let’s see if anyone else will chime in. #reefsquad

Yes I have surface agitation. I will ad one more 9095 today pointed to the surface. I already stop the skimmer yesterday. Thanks for help!!

 

[dimidragos]

@recess62 hit the nail with his info.
Enjoy the right, turn skimmer off, stop dosing bacteria and let the system do it's thingie and get it ugly and nasty before it rewards you with a perfect cycled tank and you can slowly add your fishies and inverts.

I will follow this plan and I let you know. I will remoone shrimp from today and next in few days. Just a single question: why to stop dosing bacteria??i just want to understand better how works.

 

[dimidragos]

agreed, and based on that I could vote for removing them all right now and leaving in only the feed. those rocks are designed to get ready fast, solely from hydration in the new tank. I agree the shrimp are helping nothing. somewhere in the last three pages of this thread is a section dedicated to real reef rock, and a few tracked out examples.

Todays information on cycling is too generalized and doesn't cater to the exact substrates being used, which is required because when people buy true live rock crawling with animals, to go home and add any form of ammonia past normal feeds on purpose in order to build bac (which are already there, and rode home just fine to the new tank) is completely wrong for the substrate in hand, and small crustaceans we paid $ for don't like nor need that ammonia spike. ammonia spikes are only used in dry substrate cycling.


ammonia spiking is for dry white rock, you've also added nitrifiers by the sand being wet as well...anything wet when you get it/has bac.

time and submersion all that is required here.

a neat facet of cycling, is that anyone's claim/prognostication about them is easily tested, but not with a shrimp, with ammonium chloride.

no short reads today:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

I understand thanks for help. Please let me know your opinion, was good choice to use this rocks?? I was happy in beginning but I’m a bit confused now about my choice...

 

[dimidragos]

What I really didn’t understand from beginning was what kind of rocks is this. I don’t know if I should consider them dry rocks because was not so wet when i take them out from the box, or I should consider them live rocks seeded with bacteria. That was my issue from beginning. The seller told me that it’s best buy live rocks and if I add bacteria I can start to add fish in two weeks.... Of course I don’t always believe sellers...

 

[Diesel]

I will follow this plan and I let you know. I will remoone shrimp from today and next in few days. Just a single question: why to stop dosing bacteria??i just want to understand better how works.

Simple cause your tank had enough bacteria already, it just needs to be balanced naturly by hitting that cycle.
Now you might not hit the cycle process as most of us cause you're already a feexday in.
Keep a eye out on some diatoms on the sand now that skimmer is turned off.

 

[dimidragos]

I come with an update! Amonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate its not 0, very low level , i belive 0.2-0.5 but not 0. I use salifer test and if i watch from top show 0 but from side with 10 time color magnification show 2 or 5 but i need to devide by 10 then 2-5 become 0.2-0.5.
I believe that's nice, look that the cycle it's started .
Last days i didn't add bacteria, no skimmer, light off. Today i add some food in tank, two hours before i check parameter.
I run feeding pomp and 3 Tunze 6095 power heads. Salt 1.025, temp 80-81F.

 

[dimidragos]

Hello, i have one more update, two days i didn't touch the tank because i was away. I check all parameter now :
Ammonia 0 (never show diffrent)
Nitrite 0,o25-0,05 ppm (first time i see nitrite)
Nitrate 5 ppm (not much but !0 times more that two days before)
PO4 0
salinity 1.026 ( a bit higher that last check)
ph 8.2 (stable all this time) i use hanna tes
temp 81 F

First question it's what is your opinion, everything it's on the right way?
Second question: Can i start to add some CUC in end of next week??I was thinking about 5 Turbo snail 5 Nassarius , 1 Orange spin urchin, 1 Scarlet reef hermit crab

 

[Diesel]

Hello, i have one more update, two days i didn't touch the tank because i was away. I check all parameter now :
Ammonia 0 (never show diffrent)
Nitrite 0,o25-0,05 ppm (first time i see nitrite)
Nitrate 5 ppm (not much but !0 times more that two days before)
PO4 0
salinity 1.026 ( a bit higher that last check)
ph 8.2 (stable all this time) i use hanna tes
temp 81 F

First question it's what is your opinion, everything it's on the right way?
Second question: Can i start to add some CUC in end of next week??I was thinking about 5 Turbo snail 5 Nassarius , 1 Orange spin urchin, 1 Scarlet reef hermit crab

What size tank are we talking here again?

 

[dimidragos]

What size tank are we talking here again?

Same tank i start this thread 125 g size 40x27x27

 

[Diesel]

Same tank i start this thread 125 g size 40x27x27

You need a little more of the cuc.
I recommend to take a peek at this

 

[dimidragos]

You need a little more of the cuc.
I recommend to take a peek at this

You need a little more of the cuc.
I recommend to take a peek at this

You have soo nice prices in US that i don't want to think about it....for 100 CUC i will pay here in Norway 500$!!! yes 500$!!!
I know that i need more but i was thinking that they will die hungry if i put them all in tank now. I was thinking to add slowly around 40-50 max.
What do you think about my water parameters?