Starting to Dose Nitrate
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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Unless and until you get to the point where phosphate (or something else, like iron) begins to limit algae growth, bringing nitrate from very low levels to detectable levels can spur algae growth.
jent
Active Member
I have been keeping my phosphates at .01ppm (with hanna) to try and starve the algae as well, but have had little luck there myself. I actually started to increase both my carbon and nitrate dosing by a little. I am going to try running with undetectable phosphates for a while, and see what happens. Hopefully the corals will tolerate it better than algae.
I also have been trying to aggressively remove the algae during this process as well, as I figure every bit of algae is making this chemistry harder (I want bacteria to be consuming the nitrates and phosphates, not algae of course).
Since it's something I am still experimenting with, I am not sure if that will help you or not.
I also have been trying to aggressively remove the algae during this process as well, as I figure every bit of algae is making this chemistry harder (I want bacteria to be consuming the nitrates and phosphates, not algae of course).
Since it's something I am still experimenting with, I am not sure if that will help you or not.
OP
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The-Russ
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Thank you guys for your help. Today is one week that I have been dosing Nitrates. They are still a little higher than I want so I have reduced the dose by 30%. I still do 2x daily testing and my target is 2 (slightly pink)
Besides the dose change I don't think I will do anything drastic. After years of keeping a reef tank I have learned to wait (although I am tempted to move my clown fish to my display after only a week of QT and not my normal 3 weeks). I hope the system will begin to re-balance it's self and I will begin the see the results I am looking for. No algae, coralline growing on the rock, and healthy growing corals.
I do have one orange coral is starting to pail, not because of the Nitrate dosing though. I am thinking I may need to move it a little lower in my tank.
Besides the dose change I don't think I will do anything drastic. After years of keeping a reef tank I have learned to wait (although I am tempted to move my clown fish to my display after only a week of QT and not my normal 3 weeks). I hope the system will begin to re-balance it's self and I will begin the see the results I am looking for. No algae, coralline growing on the rock, and healthy growing corals.
I do have one orange coral is starting to pail, not because of the Nitrate dosing though. I am thinking I may need to move it a little lower in my tank.
OP
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The-Russ
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week 2.
I am getting some Red Cyano on the back glass. Yesterday I sucked it all off, but beyond that I don't know what to do. I am dosing nitrates and keeping the level between 3 - 5. I am also dosing Vodka as a Carbon source.
I had hoped to see algae begin to die-off, but I have not see that happen yet.
I am getting some Red Cyano on the back glass. Yesterday I sucked it all off, but beyond that I don't know what to do. I am dosing nitrates and keeping the level between 3 - 5. I am also dosing Vodka as a Carbon source.
I had hoped to see algae begin to die-off, but I have not see that happen yet.
jent
Active Member
I don't have a direct answer, as I am only a bit ahead of you in my progression with nitrate dosing. I may be repeating myself a bit (between here and other threads). Similar to you, my goals were to more easier control my phosphates in hopes to help deal with algae.
I started nitrate, found it was soaking up the nitrate and phosphate. I lowered my nitrate dosage and have been mainlining at 1ppm nitrate (adjusting dosage as needed to maintain with testing every 2 days, dosed consistently throughout the day). I notice that the more nitrate the tank consumed the more phosphate it was also consuming (expected). At one point my phosphate was undetectable. I was surprised a week ago when I measured my phosphate back up at .05ppm. At that point I increased my carbon, and then two days after increased my nitrate (after verifying that it too also became undetectable again). That being a week ago, currently phosphates are for me now again undetectable with hanna phosphorus ULR again.
I am not really wanting undetectable phosphate. As far as algae growth goes, I can see that if my phosphates are at their old levels (~0.04), and then with increased nitrate, if anything algae growth is increased. It's only when I get down to the ultra low phosphate levels I am noticing a reduction of algae.
With that said, the algae is not just melting off the rocks. As best I can tell, it's just not expanding any more. I clean an area, and the area remains clean (probably not forever, but much longer).
I don't really like running at undetectable phosphate, but I am wondering if maybe the corals can handle it better than the algae?
Have you been monitoring it as closely as your nitrate?
I started nitrate, found it was soaking up the nitrate and phosphate. I lowered my nitrate dosage and have been mainlining at 1ppm nitrate (adjusting dosage as needed to maintain with testing every 2 days, dosed consistently throughout the day). I notice that the more nitrate the tank consumed the more phosphate it was also consuming (expected). At one point my phosphate was undetectable. I was surprised a week ago when I measured my phosphate back up at .05ppm. At that point I increased my carbon, and then two days after increased my nitrate (after verifying that it too also became undetectable again). That being a week ago, currently phosphates are for me now again undetectable with hanna phosphorus ULR again.
I am not really wanting undetectable phosphate. As far as algae growth goes, I can see that if my phosphates are at their old levels (~0.04), and then with increased nitrate, if anything algae growth is increased. It's only when I get down to the ultra low phosphate levels I am noticing a reduction of algae.
With that said, the algae is not just melting off the rocks. As best I can tell, it's just not expanding any more. I clean an area, and the area remains clean (probably not forever, but much longer).
I don't really like running at undetectable phosphate, but I am wondering if maybe the corals can handle it better than the algae?
Have you been monitoring it as closely as your nitrate?
djbetterly
Well-Known Member
I can only make one comment on this thread from my experience with dosing nitrate. Always double check your nitrate levels with a second branded kit. I was using on brand, Elos, and the kit happened to be bad and would never read higher than 5ppm...so I kept dosing more and more and more. After I started to get huge algae outbreaks I finally bought a new kit, Red Sea, and found my nitrates to be well over 60ppm. I've since gotten the nitrates under control but I'm still battling GHA and others because of that simple mistake. Just my two cents.
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The-Russ
Active Member
I hate water!!!!
Correct me if I am wrong, but the "BEST" PO4 test kit is, do you see Algae in your tank. I started dosing Nitrate because NO3 and PO4 was '0'. I thought having NO3 would help to remove PO4. It has not yet.
I know that I have a small Phosphate issue because I can see the Algae and Coralline will not grow on my rock.
I am going to continue to add NO3 because I understand it is good to have small amounts in my tank and I have only been dosing for 2 weeks, but I am beginning to become skeptical that my theory of having a little NO3 will help to remove my PO4.
I know many of you will say use GFO, but I am fearful that will become expensive with my large amount of water (650 gal +/-)
Any suggestions?
Correct me if I am wrong, but the "BEST" PO4 test kit is, do you see Algae in your tank. I started dosing Nitrate because NO3 and PO4 was '0'. I thought having NO3 would help to remove PO4. It has not yet.
I know that I have a small Phosphate issue because I can see the Algae and Coralline will not grow on my rock.
I am going to continue to add NO3 because I understand it is good to have small amounts in my tank and I have only been dosing for 2 weeks, but I am beginning to become skeptical that my theory of having a little NO3 will help to remove my PO4.
I know many of you will say use GFO, but I am fearful that will become expensive with my large amount of water (650 gal +/-)
Any suggestions?
djbetterly
Well-Known Member
Maybe do a bit of reading about carbon dosing. @Randy Holmes-Farley has some good write ups on both vodka and vinegar dosing.
Also, do you have a refugium? Good macro's can fix a lot of issues.
Also, do you have a refugium? Good macro's can fix a lot of issues.
KingTriton
Active Member
This has been my experience. Ive always had undetectable nitrates. After bringing my Nitrates from 0 to 0.05-1pmm the algae went crazy "the day after dosing'' and started to really take off. If you are having algae problems I would strongly recommend not dosing nitrate. Ive heard good things about ATS or even chaeto when using an appropriate light.
Lets put it this way... Ive been having GHA grow like mad for 5 months now with a reading of 0 Po4 using my Hanna Phosphorus URL. If you have P04 leaching from your rock theres not much use in a test kit ime.
djbetterly
Well-Known Member
I agree to disagree on this, I think its nice to have a number, doesn't need to be exact, but at least its a reference point to where your tank stands in terms of phosphates. How do you know if any of your methods are working to reduce PO4 if you don't have a reference point?
KingTriton
Active Member
QUOTE="The-Russ, post: 2753576, member: 37162"]The algae is getting much darker, I will see what happens over the next couple weeks.[/QUOTE]
In my experience you want the algae to become lighter not darker. You should see the algae start to become lighter and eventually white as it starts to die off which is what you want. Once it turns a whitish color it will start to lose its footing making the algae easier to remove.
If you notice the algae is becoming darker in color than the NO3 dosing may be helping contribute to its existence. Also if the Po4 is leaching from your rock than I don't think adding NO3 will help lower your phosphate issue as its not in the water column but embedded inside your rock (hint why your test is reading 0ppm).
Just a side note I would check your TDS readings with an appropriate "hand held meter" not a inline meter to insure 000 TDS as well.
You may be doing everything right, but with constant Po4 in your top off water and WC's it may not be enough to keep your Po4 down.
In my experience you want the algae to become lighter not darker. You should see the algae start to become lighter and eventually white as it starts to die off which is what you want. Once it turns a whitish color it will start to lose its footing making the algae easier to remove.
If you notice the algae is becoming darker in color than the NO3 dosing may be helping contribute to its existence. Also if the Po4 is leaching from your rock than I don't think adding NO3 will help lower your phosphate issue as its not in the water column but embedded inside your rock (hint why your test is reading 0ppm).
Just a side note I would check your TDS readings with an appropriate "hand held meter" not a inline meter to insure 000 TDS as well.
You may be doing everything right, but with constant Po4 in your top off water and WC's it may not be enough to keep your Po4 down.
StikHedRon
Well-Known Member
I tried dosing Nitrate a few years back and ran into this problem of Red Algae and once I had it, it never went away. I finally got tired of it and tore the tank down, I will never again try and dose Nitrate as it causes more problems than good.
Fwiw I dose vodka and nitrate and have been very happy with it. I view carbon dosing, for my system, as a method to feed inverts and boost the food chain. Nutrient reduction is just a nice bonus.
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The-Russ
Active Member
How did you establish your Carbon Dose amount? What are you using as a Carbon source?
I temporarily cut off dosing Carbon, but want to start to dose it again. I think I am going to work hard on getting my Nitrate exactly where I want it then start the Carbon dosing like the threads recommend. My thought is that I will then slightly increase my Nitrate.
Shout Out to @Russ265 a Local Reefer and new friend.
Honestly I don't remember fine tuning my carbon dosing. Been doing it for a couple of years and I tweak the dose from time to time. It's been pretty flexible for me. I have always used vodka.
