Starting to Dose Vodka 0 Nitrates

The-Russ · Jul 25, 2015

I have a young tank that I restarted after shutting it down when the economy crashed. It is about 600 - 650 total water volume.

I started it up in December and it only has one small wrasse living in it, a cleanup crew, and a few shrimp. I feed pellets 2x a day and the food gets eaten by the 1 fish and other critters. I have gone through the algae blooms and now it seems to have stabilized, but I am not completely happy with the water quality. The parameters for my tank seem fine: Nitrates are 0 (redsea kit) and my phosphates are .06 - .08 (readsea kit), but it doesnt look like that. I have a little bit of green hair algae where snails cannot get, and I have some algae growing on the sand green'ish brown (doesn't look like diatom).

I want to learn to dose so I thought I would start with Carbon. I chose Vodka as my source of carbon and After 4 days I have bumped it up to 4.6ml a day from 2.3, Not very much.

My question is, how do I know when to cut back the amount if my nitrates are 0. My goal here is pristine water. I love the look of glenf's reef with his DSR method, but I don't want to import all that stuff. I want to learn how to do it myself.

Any assistance is appreciated.

Reefing Madness · Jul 25, 2015

You don't want to dose vodka for phosphate removal, thats what it eats out secondary, and very little at that, its primarily used for lowering and maintaining Nitrates, of which you don't have any.
I'd recommend running either GFO and a reactor, a fuge with macro algae, an Algae Turf Scrubber or SeaKlear, a Lanthanum product.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 25, 2015

Just to first clarify one issue first that most people misunderstand:

" I feed pellets 2x a day and the food gets eaten by the 1 fish and other critters."

Whether the fish eat it or not may impact whether you are feeding an appropriate amount, but it has nearly no impact on what happens to the nutrients in the food. Nearly all of the nitrogen and phosphorus from any food you add to the aquarium ends up almost entirely as nitrate and phosphate in the water. An adult fish does not retain any of these, and a juvenile only a small fraction.

On to the carbon dosing, how much to dose depends on what you want to accomplish with it.

What are you hoping for?

The-Russ · Jul 25, 2015

My end goal it to learn/understand water quality and learn to mix/dose to grow a quality reef with lots of fish and quality corals. I like the idea of what Glennf is doing with his DSR method. It takes my interest in the hobby to a different level than water change and skim, light, and flow.

Right now, I have algae that I do not want. I want clean water and rock. I didn't want to grow algae or a gfo reactor.

Maybe I need to rethink it all.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 25, 2015

Organic carbon dosing generally lowers nitrate more than phosphate.

You may be able to outcompete the algae for available nitrogen (ammonia and nitrate) with vodka dosing, but you won't be able to drop the phosphate all that much without any significant nitrate present.

The-Russ · Jul 26, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
but you won't be able to drop the phosphate all that much without any significant nitrate present.

Are you saying that I need Nitrate to lower Phosphate? not sure what I need to do then. Should I stop the Vodka since I have not been doing it long and have no nitrates?

What about dosing to reduce phosphate instead of GFO?

redfishbluefish · Jul 26, 2015

An understanding of carbon dosing will make the N and P discussion become clear.

Whatever "carbon" you are using to dose, is food for bacteria. The bacteria consume the "carbon" and now grow and multiply. In the process, these growing cells need nitrogen and phosphate as part of their makeup. They take this from your dirty water (and lets say at about a ratio of 16 N's for every 1 P).

Now to complete the process, this growing bacteria (with some of your N and a pinch of P) get sucked into you skimmer to become part of the skimmate. The N and P have now been exported from your system.

If you don't have sufficient quanities of either or both nitrogen (nitrates) and phosphates, the bacteria won't grow and multiply.

Hope this simple explanation helps in understanding the need for both.

The-Russ · Jul 26, 2015

so since I have 0 nitrates I should stop dosing Vodka. What do I do to get my water clearer and no algae? I don't really have an algae issue, there is just some here and there on the sand and places he cleanup crew cannot get to.

I really want to get my rock clean so I can get coralline to grow.

twilliard · Jul 26, 2015

Triton method

Reefing Madness · Jul 26, 2015

Get your phosphates to .03

twilliard · Jul 26, 2015

Reefing Madness said:
Get your phosphates to .03

Using what method?
he states he wants pristine water..
the question at hand is "how" with what he has

Reefing Madness · Jul 26, 2015

Prestine?? With Phosphates at .08?
I use SeaKlear.
If he's having trouble getting it lower, then he has to replace GFO more frequently.

twilliard · Jul 26, 2015

Or add a fuge
We all have our methods of reducing all that unwanted garbage
but he wants pristine water with his current tank condition.
He feeds the tank 2 times a day.
complains of algae

Take care of nutrients and no need to dose anything

Reefing Madness · Jul 26, 2015

I have huge fish in my tank, I don't care about nutrients. I Vodka Dose, and use SeaKlear, I don't have any trouble with my water conditions.
Yes, Macro Algae in a sizable sump helps, or running a huge skimmer or running an algae turf scrubber, but with using SeaKlear, he doesn't need anything else, and it will take his phosphates to 0 right now. Although I'd not do that, it would tick off the corals really bad, but you get where Im going with it.

twilliard · Jul 26, 2015

And yes I do understand what you are saying.
I used to dose methanol
But now I don't have to worry about any dosing, missed doses from vacations or work, too busy with my 8 children and so on.
He is stating that clarity is the issue with some algae.

I stated its the feeding

The-Russ · Jul 27, 2015

When you say SeaKlear are you talking about the pool product?

redfishbluefish · Jul 27, 2015

The-Russ said:
When you say SeaKlear are you talking about the pool product?

Yep! It's a pool/spa product. A number of folks use it.....it's lanthanum chloride. Read up on it first because there are mixed reviews and I'm sure @Randy Holmes-Farley has an opinion. I'll remain silent.

S.O.B · Jul 27, 2015

BIO FUEL AND MICROBACTER7 ,(same as vodka dosing ,just for aquarium use) HOW OLD ARE YOUR LIGHTS ? any sunlight hitting tank?

The-Russ · Jul 27, 2015

Lights are new and there is some natural light, not a lot.

The algae is not terrible, I am just looking for perfect. Some people might love to have my issues.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 27, 2015

The-Russ said:
so since I have 0 nitrates I should stop dosing Vodka. What do I do to get my water clearer and no algae? I don't really have an algae issue, there is just some here and there on the sand and places he cleanup crew cannot get to.

I really want to get my rock clean so I can get coralline to grow.

I wouldn't assume you should stop, but I wouldn't increase it and I wouldn't expect it to lower phosphate.

A low dose of vodka can keep the nitrate down.