Still struggling with phosphates...

[anthonygf]

I only run my skimmer when lights out. I only have 60 gallons total volume but I feed fish twice a day, feed corals and clam a couple times a week.

Get a large clam, I think he will utilize some phosphate and definitely will consume nitrates. My nitrates stays between 5 and 12.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Get a large clam, I think he will utilize some phosphate and definitely will consume nitrates. My nitrates stays between 5 and 12.

My LFS is working on getting me a calm : )

 

[Fishingandreefing]

I use phosphate Rx in my 46 bowfront, 4 drops lowers my phosphate from .13 to .07 overnight. I do that maybe once or twice every 2 weeks, depending on test results.

Do you drop it directly in the display, sump or into the skimmer? I read that’s fine but I was dripping it slowly through a 10 micron filter sock and it was kind of annoying so I stopped using it.

 

[anthonygf]

Do you drop it directly in the display, sump or into the skimmer? I read that’s fine but I was dripping it slowly through a 10 micron filter sock and it was kind of annoying so I stopped using it.

I place the drops in the overflow box going to filter socks. If you use the recommended amount will cloud your water, but will be ok.

 

[anthonygf]

My LFS is working on getting me a calm : )

Yes, the bigger the better. No smaller than 6 inches.

 

[anthonygf]

My LFS is working on getting me a calm : )

Love your quote by the way, so true.

 

[Fishingandreefing]

I place the drops in the overflow box going to filter socks. If you use the recommended amount will cloud your water, but will be ok.

As I guess all corals and fish were ok

 

[Hincapiej4]

Get a large clam, I think he will utilize some phosphate and definitely will consume nitrates. My nitrates stays between 5 and 12.

I have a big clam..but I thought the whole consuming nutrients thing is a myth... They eat phyto and light. Also use massive alk/cal to grow...

 

[anthonygf]

I have a big clam..but I thought the whole consuming nutrients thing is a myth... They eat phyto and light. Also use massive alk/cal to grow...

You are right about alk/cal, I know I read somewhere they can consume nitrates just like algea. they also do not need supplemental feeding but I do anyway just to be sure. I do notice my nitrates are less than without a clam and I am feeding my fish twice a day now and still nitrates stay between 5-12 on the NYOS test kit.

 

[KrisReef]

....I can’t find it... sorry, at this point, scotch is definitely involved : ) (big cheesy grin)

someone up there just said the dry pellets are higher in phosphates than the frozen foods. That kind of blew my mind. I thought the pellets were like... way more nutritional than the frozen foods... is that just wrong?

Did you ever consider the nutrient value of corn flakes or spam vs. fresh french bread and filet mignon?

I feed my fish commercially available frozen foods mostly because I am too lazy to prepare fresh fish, clams, shrimp that I've diced up (and then frozen into cubes) like I used to when I was younger. I don't drain them but I watch the P level using Hanna ULR Phosphorus.

I was having difficulty with higher levels of P (120 ppm) and the SPS coral growth was nearly zero while some LPS grew very quickly. I started using GFO in a canister filter, the media clumped and didn't tumble but the water had to pass through. I used a few tablespoons to start and it took a few weeks, changing media every week before the numbers in my 150 gallon system (water measured, not cubic ft est.) began to drop.

As someone mentioned earlier, the removal is working against the stored P that is resting on the substrates in your system as an equilibrium equation. Since you like numbers, thing about 10 stacks of 100 dollar bills, 10 bills deep. The first dose of GFO might remove the top 5 bills but you still have 10 stacks that are going to measure the same amount of precipitation as when you started. One more treatment and now you have no "savings" in the tank but the number still can read as high as you did before, but there is no reserve to bank against. Your next treatment is your last, and all your corals die from starvation but the number you measured is now finally low (at zero).

So don't start adding GFO while you are enjoying Scotch. Do it carefully before and know what to expect.

With an eel in the tank you are going to have a real challenge keeping the eel fed and the P numbers managed, imo. I think you can do this. You like numbers and have raised two children solo. This should be a cakewalk.

One more thing about your Hanna ULR measurements; mine is old and I have to use a conversion table to correct to get phosphate estimates in PPM from the PPB phosphorus measurement given on the read out. .035?

Our 3 have grown, so I'm grabbing my medication now too.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Did you ever consider the nutrient value of corn flakes or spam vs. fresh french bread and filet mignon?

I feed my fish commercially available frozen foods mostly because I am too lazy to prepare fresh fish, clams, shrimp that I've diced up (and then frozen into cubes) like I used to when I was younger. I don't drain them but I watch the P level using Hanna ULR Phosphorus.

I was having difficulty with higher levels of P (120 ppm) and the SPS coral growth was nearly zero while some LPS grew very quickly. I started using GFO in a canister filter, the media clumped and didn't tumble but the water had to pass through. I used a few tablespoons to start and it took a few weeks, changing media every week before the numbers in my 150 gallon system (water measured, not cubic ft est.) began to drop.

As someone mentioned earlier, the removal is working against the stored P that is resting on the substrates in your system as an equilibrium equation. Since you like numbers, thing about 10 stacks of 100 dollar bills, 10 bills deep. The first dose of GFO might remove the top 5 bills but you still have 10 stacks that are going to measure the same amount of precipitation as when you started. One more treatment and now you have no "savings" in the tank but the number still can read as high as you did before, but there is no reserve to bank against. Your next treatment is your last, and all your corals die from starvation but the number you measured is now finally low (at zero).

So don't start adding GFO while you are enjoying Scotch. Do it carefully before and know what to expect.

With an eel in the tank you are going to have a real challenge keeping the eel fed and the P numbers managed, imo. I think you can do this. You like numbers and have raised two children solo. This should be a cakewalk.

One more thing about your Hanna ULR measurements; mine is old and I have to use a conversion table to correct to get phosphate estimates in PPM from the PPB phosphorus measurement given on the read out. .035?

Our 3 have grown, so I'm grabbing my medication now too.

I did swap out the carbon in my reactor with the PhosGaurd today. I just put the carbon in a mesh bag.

note to self: No GFO with scotch and take my meds! Lol

 

[Thales]

[/QUOTE]

....I can’t find it... sorry, at this point, scotch is definitely involved : ) (big cheesy grin)

someone up there just said the dry pellets are higher in phosphates than the frozen foods. That kind of blew my mind. I thought the pellets were like... way more nutritional than the frozen foods... is that just wrong?

This?

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

The clam effect is negligible. Clams also suck at life.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

This?

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

The clam effect is negligible. Clams also suck at life.
[/QUOTE]
So this really is all about food. ...feeding habits. I have just made some major changes to my own feeding habits. (Fingers crossed)

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

So.. yesterday. Funny story. Here I am focusing on changing my feeding habits

I put a half a sheet of Nori my rank yesterday With then intention of only leaving in there for 3-4 hours. My Foxface yanked the entire sheet out of the clip on his first bite. Of course, that sheet went under my rock. About an hour later I saw it floating in the water and jump up to get it.

As I was reaching in to grab it, it went thru a power head! Lol.. smh... some days you just can’t win!

 

[Thales]

This?

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

The clam effect is negligible. Clams also suck at life.

So this really is all about food. ...feeding habits. I have just made some major changes to my own feeding habits. (Fingers crossed)
[/QUOTE]

I think that takeaway is not right and not what Randy concludes or recommends in this article or elsewhere. Sure, not feeding will lower your inputs, but as the article shows, it really doesn't take much food to spike up your numbers: "I have not seen compelling evidence that not feeding, or feeding remarkably less, is a good overall solution to having high numbers. It also depends a whole lot on what anials you are feeding." Even the light feeding of a single cube of a relatively low phosphate frozen food to this aquarium supplied most of that target amount in a single feeding. Heavy feeding added ten times that amount in a single day." But we can ask him @Randy Holmes-Farley , am I reading you wrong?

Your inputs are where the nutrients are most likely coming from (but they may be coming from your source water, your salt mix, or any number of other potential inputs, but you have to feed animals (all of them, not just the fish) so they have enough to eat. It would be weird to feed your baby less because you didn't want to deal with diapers.

Reducing the food to get numbers one likes better seems off to me, and sometimes cruel because it can result in not enough food for the animals, as well as no meaningful reduction in nutrients. If the numbers matter to you, I think this is about export (or changing your expectations around the numbers you are chasing). I think it is better all around to keep feeding heavy, but export the nutrients (GFO, Lanthanum, more algae, more water changes, etc) if you don't like your current numbers.

I have not seen compelling evidence that not feeding, or feeding remarkably less, is a good overall solution to having high numbers. It also depends a whole lot on what anials you are feeding.

That said, I would be interested if the results of your feeding changes, as long as you make no other changes to the system in the time that you are logging the effects of those changes. Most of the time, anecdotes around this topic are made more difficult because people are trying many things at the same time to make a difference.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Lanthium chloride. Done.

 

[Fishingandreefing]

Lanthium chloride. Done.

I have tried. It brought down like it supposed to but then it rise up again.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Is this a newish system? I treat my rock with acid and I have always had to artificially knock the phos down for the first 4-5 months. The rock was leaching phos. (Pukani)

I have used an entire bottle of lanthium chloride in one month on my new setup. It has had water for 3? months now.

LC is way easier and way cheaper than GFO. It is POWERFUL stuff though so be careful.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I personally don’t think limiting food input is a good practice, I agree with Thales, that practice can result in your fish not getting enough food, and some people take it too far and it can result in starvation of some animals. I think you’ll find that you’ll get the best results with all the tank if you focus your efforts on balancing your nutrient export with the heavy feeding, your corals will benefit from this as well, in my experience.

Go slow with the reactor and phosguard, reaching a very low PO4 level isn’t always an ideal situation especially with SPS. The phosguard in a reactor will be far more efficient than it was by itself in a bag in your sump. .

 

[Thales]

I have tried. It brought down like it supposed to but then it rise up again.

It isn't a single dose method - it almost always bounces back up. To keep it down over time you need to figure a constant dose for your system.

In April, I raised a whole ton of Acropora embryos all the way to settlement in a system containing my display tank and tanks currently used for growing out parent acros to hopefully spawn in October, with nitrate around 50 and phosphate around 1.3. Baby acros are growing. Adult acros are growing. Display acros are growing and colored enough for me. I continue to think that the worry over nutrient levels may be overblown. I love me some dirty tanks.