Stray voltage

[Ashy]

Today after water change I got a feeling like I had a cut on my finger and the saltwater stung it, but after dipping my finger in the old water there was no such feeling. I (stupidly) started turning things off and dipping. After turning the skimmer off no more stinging, I thought it was the skimmer being faulty so unplugged it, later on I checked again and it stung again (heaters turned on as the temp had dropped from the skimmer test) so its not the skimmer its just the skimmer was the straw that sent it over the edge (at that time).

I grabbed a multimeter set it to AC voltage and turned everything off, I get a reading of 1.6volts with everything off.
with return pump on its 17volts
with the heaters and above on its 40 volts
with gyres and above on its 60volts
with skimmer and above its at 80volts.

Now I tried to remove the skimmer and heaters completely from the water and unplugged them and I still get voltage increasing with each piece of gear turned on (aobut 20 volts each bit).
I tried a different outlet with a different extension cord and it still happens so its not the outlet or surgeprotector

Tomorrow I will try and test it with the return and gyres completely removed.

Does anyone have any troubleshooting tips for me to get this figured out?

I would also like to point out my ICP results which show elevated tin, iron and zinc, could be related?

Analysis result

ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

 

[KrisReef]

Get a ground for the system, the rest I can not trouble shoot from here. Be safe

 

[MEPAWN35]

i would measure the amperage in the tank and then record the amperage when you shut things off one at a time. The amperage will show if there is something really electrifying the water. I had a heater explode in my tank before and didnt know till i got shocked and started testing the amps. Turns out i had 1.8 amps going into my water....

 

[Ashy]

With everything on I see no AC current but I see 4mA DC. I've turned the return on and off enough times today and its getting late so I'll check tomorrow by unplugging one at a time and see if it drops.

I noticed when I unplug my skimmer from the socket the voltage is higher than just turning the switch off. Turning the switch off -20 volts while totally unplugging is -10 volts.

 

[Ashy]

Also some extra info this is UK electricity so 230V50hz

 

[Paul B]

Those induced voltages are perfectly normal. Especially with your English 230 volts. Don't worry about it. Go out to diner, perhaps have some fish and chips.

It's all good.

 

[MEPAWN35]

Also some extra info this is UK electricity so 230V50hz

If i remember correctly the voltage doesnt really mater has much as thats just the electric potential, but you shouldnt be measuring any amps. But it does seem that induced voltage is normal. Im in the US and have 120V. Im thinking it would more than likely be your heater.

A fresh water tank i had, had an induced voltage of like 47V but never shocked or caused any issues as my miliamps was undetectable

 

[Tankkeepers]

I wouldn't worrie to much and a grounding prob can cause as big of a problem as not having one


With the tank grounded completing the circuit your electricuting everything in your tank without a prob the electric in your tank is harmless untill you complete the circuit either with a Ground or you yourself ground it out

And let's not get into gfci outlets they are a joke

You have any idea how many of these either false trip don't trip when they should or just plain explode into a ball of flames

You better off leaving the tank as a close circut and either prevent yourself for grounding or turn everything off

also if you have any amps then you have microcracks in your equipment you cant see them but saltwater will still get in and short it out

Either a unplug everything before reaching in or stand on a rubber mat so your not grounded

Also let's not for all those gfci enthusiasts
If having a gfci prevents me from also having a surge protecter(it does surge bleed off cause an imbalance and trips the gfci)

I'd rather have clean stabile power thank you very much as dirty power messes up electronics faster then anything

Especially where I live my power jumps from 85 volts to 160 volts everyday all day

I have backup batterys and surge protectors installed on every piece of equipment in my house

Otherwise I end up with flames comming out the back of a computer cuz the power shot way high and blew up the power supply this happened about 5 years ago now and the gfci it was plugged into also exploded in flames so pass on those

I also had a pump overheat and melt due to to little power couldn't start and hung heated up and melted internally untill the wires inside melted together that also melted the gfci and blew it up

last time I used one of those

Surge with an low over amp protection is the only way to go all else your just asking for trouble

 

[Freenow54]

Today after water change I got a feeling like I had a cut on my finger and the saltwater stung it, but after dipping my finger in the old water there was no such feeling. I (stupidly) started turning things off and dipping. After turning the skimmer off no more stinging, I thought it was the skimmer being faulty so unplugged it, later on I checked again and it stung again (heaters turned on as the temp had dropped from the skimmer test) so its not the skimmer its just the skimmer was the straw that sent it over the edge (at that time).

I grabbed a multimeter set it to AC voltage and turned everything off, I get a reading of 1.6volts with everything off.
with return pump on its 17volts
with the heaters and above on its 40 volts
with gyres and above on its 60volts
with skimmer and above its at 80volts.

Now I tried to remove the skimmer and heaters completely from the water and unplugged them and I still get voltage increasing with each piece of gear turned on (aobut 20 volts each bit).
I tried a different outlet with a different extension cord and it still happens so its not the outlet or surgeprotector

Tomorrow I will try and test it with the return and gyres completely removed.

Does anyone have any troubleshooting tips for me to get this figured out?

I would also like to point out my ICP results which show elevated tin, iron and zinc, could be related?

Analysis result

ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

Are you checking to neutral or ground?

 

[Freenow54]

i would measure the amperage in the tank and then record the amperage when you shut things off one at a time. The amperage will show if there is something really electrifying the water. I had a heater explode in my tank before and didnt know till i got shocked and started testing the amps. Turns out i had 1.8 amps going into my water....

Amperage is only used to check through a load is not potential energy. Another words is power used

 

[Freenow54]

Today after water change I got a feeling like I had a cut on my finger and the saltwater stung it, but after dipping my finger in the old water there was no such feeling. I (stupidly) started turning things off and dipping. After turning the skimmer off no more stinging, I thought it was the skimmer being faulty so unplugged it, later on I checked again and it stung again (heaters turned on as the temp had dropped from the skimmer test) so its not the skimmer its just the skimmer was the straw that sent it over the edge (at that time).

I grabbed a multimeter set it to AC voltage and turned everything off, I get a reading of 1.6volts with everything off.
with return pump on its 17volts
with the heaters and above on its 40 volts
with gyres and above on its 60volts
with skimmer and above its at 80volts.

Now I tried to remove the skimmer and heaters completely from the water and unplugged them and I still get voltage increasing with each piece of gear turned on (aobut 20 volts each bit).
I tried a different outlet with a different extension cord and it still happens so its not the outlet or surgeprotector

Tomorrow I will try and test it with the return and gyres completely removed.

Does anyone have any troubleshooting tips for me to get this figured out?

I would also like to point out my ICP results which show elevated tin, iron and zinc, could be related?

Analysis result

ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

I wouldn't worrie to much and a grounding prob can cause as big of a problem as not having one


With the tank grounded completing the circuit your electricuting everything in your tank without a prob the electric in your tank is harmless untill you complete the circuit either with a Ground or you yourself ground it out

And let's not get into gfci outlets they are a joke

You have any idea how many of these either false trip don't trip when they should or just plain explode into a ball of flames

You better off leaving the tank as a close circut and either prevent yourself for grounding or turn everything off

also if you have any amps then you have microcracks in your equipment you cant see them but saltwater will still get in and short it out

Either a unplug everything before reaching in or stand on a rubber mat so your not grounded

Also let's not for all those gfci enthusiasts
If having a gfci prevents me from also having a surge protecter(it does surge bleed off cause an imbalance and trips the gfci)

I'd rather have clean stabile power thank you very much as dirty power messes up electronics faster then anything

Especially where I live my power jumps from 85 volts to 160 volts everyday all day

I have backup batterys and surge protectors installed on every piece of equipment in my house

Otherwise I end up with flames comming out the back of a computer cuz the power shot way high and blew up the power supply this happened about 5 years ago now and the gfci it was plugged into also exploded in flames so pass on those

I also had a pump overheat and melt due to to little power couldn't start and hung heated up and melted internally untill the wires inside melted together that also melted the gfci and blew it up

last time I used one of those

Surge with an low over amp protection is the only way to go all else your just asking for trouble

Yes no one seems to understand GFI function. They also do not understand What is called here is ARC protection I almost had a fire due to not having Arc protection it melted my power bar

 

[Freenow54]

Need clarification. You have 230 V there? how are the circuits split to run 120V equipment?

 

[Ashy]

Are you checking to neutral or ground?

Ground

 

[Ashy]

Need clarification. You have 230 V there? how are the circuits split to run 120V equipment?

Yeah 230v, all equipment is also AC 230 apart from the gyres which are DC and have their own converters built into their powersupply

 

[Freenow54]

Yeah 230v, all equipment is also AC 230 apart from the gyres which are DC and have their own converters built into their powersupply

OK just got off the phone with the best and most talented tradesman I have ever met. I have worked with 100s. He is a master electrician. So I will start over. He feels the problem is most likely not connected with the tank at all especially in light of your tests, and obviously you do not have neutral just ground. So He has had experience with the fault being somewhere that is searching for a best ground. Your receptacle being it. They found in cow barns that the problem was actually with the supply from the lines outside not being properly grounded if you want I will explain but not important. Also could be a problem with the supply to your home. I would unplug , and or switch off all appliances in your home except tank . Then try readings again ( Voltage ). Not to be condescending but I assume you know how 230V works? If still find potential then turn off your tank equipment. That should prove weather it is your problem or the suppliers problem. It took them a year to convince the supplier that it was their problem . Ok here is what happened they grounded the line supply in rock which is not conductive, a second one was in sand when the sand dried out again no ground. So shutting down your tank to service may not keep you out of harms way. I guess a band aid

solution would be to use an anode ground in the tank. Arguing with the supplier will be frustrating

 

[Tankkeepers]

OK just got off the phone with the best and most talented tradesman I have ever met. I have worked with 100s. He is a master electrician. So I will start over. He feels the problem is most likely not connected with the tank at all especially in light of your tests, and obviously you do not have neutral just ground. So He has had experience with the fault being somewhere that is searching for a best ground. Your receptacle being it. They found in cow barns that the problem was actually with the supply from the lines outside not being properly grounded if you want I will explain but not important. Also could be a problem with the supply to your home. I would unplug , and or switch off all appliances in your home except tank . Then try readings again ( Voltage ). Not to be condescending but I assume you know how 230V works? If still find potential then turn off your tank equipment. That should prove weather it is your problem or the suppliers problem. It took them a year to convince the supplier that it was their problem . Ok here is what happened they grounded the line supply in rock which is not conductive, a second one was in sand when the sand dried out again no ground. So shutting down your tank to service may not keep you out of harms way. I guess a band aid

solution would be to use an anode ground in the tank. Arguing with the supplier will be frustrating

If there is amps running threw the tank do not use the prob untill it is solved as your completing the circut and electrocuting your fishys

As long as the tank is not grounded there is 0 rish to the livestock inside the tank only a risk to you

 

[Tankkeepers]

Yes no one seems to understand GFI function. They also do not understand What is called here is ARC protection I almost had a fire due to not having Arc protection it melted my power bar

Hey how you doing lol

You are correct and exactly what happened to me altho it was inside the wall

As long as the same power is flowing in and out a gfi will not trip

You can have a short in the tank from one hot end to another neutral end and the gfi will not trip and in this senerio the tank is electrified and will still shock you untill the gfi trips from you redirecting the path of power to somewhere other then neutral and if the gfi has a fault you didn't know about now your dead when you thought you was safe

Expect the worst then your never surprised

They only work if there's an imbalance between the 2 not all shorts cause this

Personally I'd rather just expect to get shocked and take precautions

Then to think I'm safe cause of some tech and end up electrocuted cuz the tech failed to work like it should

 

[Freenow54]

If there is amps running threw the tank do not use the prob untill it is solved as your completing the circut and electrocuting your fishys

As long as the tank is not grounded there is 0 rish to the livestock inside the tank only a risk to you

Well only if they swim through it they will learn lol. IN reality never thought of that what if you put your hand in the path very bad for sure

 

[Tankkeepers]

Well only if they swim through it they will learn lol. IN reality never thought of that what if you put your hand in the path very bad for sure

If the tank is not grounded then it's a closed loop aka the tank is a switch in the off position

At this point harmless to anything inside the tank

But you put a ground prob in or your hand and some other part of you is grounded aka wet feet on floor touching a metal bolt or screw in your tank stand etc you have now switched the tank to the on position and the power will flow from where ever its comming from threw your body or the Probe and since it's now active it'll start electrocuting coral fish everything inside the tank

Think bird on a wire as long as it doesn't touch another wire it's fine

 

[Freenow54]

Today after water change I got a feeling like I had a cut on my finger and the saltwater stung it, but after dipping my finger in the old water there was no such feeling. I (stupidly) started turning things off and dipping. After turning the skimmer off no more stinging, I thought it was the skimmer being faulty so unplugged it, later on I checked again and it stung again (heaters turned on as the temp had dropped from the skimmer test) so its not the skimmer its just the skimmer was the straw that sent it over the edge (at that time).

I grabbed a multimeter set it to AC voltage and turned everything off, I get a reading of 1.6volts with everything off.
with return pump on its 17volts
with the heaters and above on its 40 volts
with gyres and above on its 60volts
with skimmer and above its at 80volts.

Now I tried to remove the skimmer and heaters completely from the water and unplugged them and I still get voltage increasing with each piece of gear turned on (aobut 20 volts each bit).
I tried a different outlet with a different extension cord and it still happens so its not the outlet or surgeprotector

Tomorrow I will try and test it with the return and gyres completely removed.

Does anyone have any troubleshooting tips for me to get this figured out?

I would also like to point out my ICP results which show elevated tin, iron and zinc, could be related?

Analysis result

ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

I will call my friend tomorrow in the morning so its not too late for you and read him your post. Interesting that as you introduce loads the stray voltage increases. I cannot wrap my head around it yet its like you have a bad ground wire don't know but will try to get a solution