Substitute for ChaetoGro/Chaeto grow?
- Thread starter Azra
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GoM_reefs
Community Member
Without knowing what storefronts you have availible, it's hard to recommend a specific product. However, you can look at hydroponics fertilizers, or powered fertilizer components (I personally really like Green Leaf Aquariums, but there are much cheaper options in many cases i.e. nitrate) to build your own mix. Seachem offers a nice range with their Flora lineup, which I use to supplement a homebrew NPK mix. Just be sure whatever you pick is copper free.
Looking at Cheatogrow, it seems to be a potassium fertilizer (0-0-1.3) with a heavy focus on micronutrients. Seachem Flourish has a nearly identical micronutrient composition with less potassium and no carbon. If you have access to Seachem products, you can dose Flourish alongside Flourish Potassium and a vodka carbon dose. If not, hydroponic micronutrient ferts can be used with potash and vodka dosing.
Looking at Cheatogrow, it seems to be a potassium fertilizer (0-0-1.3) with a heavy focus on micronutrients. Seachem Flourish has a nearly identical micronutrient composition with less potassium and no carbon. If you have access to Seachem products, you can dose Flourish alongside Flourish Potassium and a vodka carbon dose. If not, hydroponic micronutrient ferts can be used with potash and vodka dosing.
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Azra
New Member
I do have access to many freshwater fertilizers, as for saltwater it's bit less wide array of products. There is some issues with US and UK products, some are available some are not, and I can't find any European product that is chaeto or macroalgae specific.
What would be tolerable dose of copper? I used Tropica Premium in my freshwater shrimp tank. As I recall it has 0.006% Cu and no nitrate and phosphate. Shrimps didn't have issues with it, but I am not sure if it would be a problem in saltwater. This is my first saltwater, so I am still gathering information.
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GoM_reefs
Community Member
My first instinct would be to say zero copper, but it really depends on what else you have, and I suppose there's always copper absorbers. Personally, Flourish Excel contains a minute amount of copper and I dosed it for years in a tank with no water changes. I even raised crabs from larvae in that tank, so your mileage may vary.
Macro nutrients are fairly simple, but I've had a hard time finding truly copper free micronutrients outside of the major brands unfortunately. On the other hand, most seawater mixes will have trace elements included, so whether or not you really need specialized micronutrients is debatable depending on your salt mix and water changes. Since you're just starting the tank, focus on keeping your basic macronutrients (NPK) availible and monitor your growth.
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To my understanding, it could be a problem (as discussed in the quote below), but whether it will be a problem or not is actually really complicated. The toxicity is impacted by the salinity, the osmoregulation of the individual species, the tolerance of individual species, the Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC) levels, the kinds of DOC, the kind of copper, etc.
That 0.002-0.2 is mg/L or ppm - therapeutic copper treatment for fish 2.5ppm for reference. It's worth noting here, though, that some creatures may actually do just as well or better with some levels of copper. For example, Whiteleg Shrimp (Litopenaeus vannamei) actually grew slightly (albeit, statistically insignificantly) better in aquaculture systems with 0.3 mg/L of copper in it than in the control (no copper) systems.*- LC50 for Copper when tested on different inverts* (a mussel species, an oyster species, a copepod species, and two urchin species - one of the urchins was the sand dollar you have; a different test** used a limpet, a crab, and a mussel) ranged from ~0.002 to 0.2 (LC50 being a toxicology term for the dose needed before half of a given population dies from the toxin); the LC50 varies from one species to the other, and it varies dependent on a number of different factors (such as the bioavailability of the form of copper in the water).
Personally, just looking at the odds of getting a damaging to lethal level of copper in your water, I wouldn't use your water without DI.
*Test Report 1
https://setac.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/etc.45 **Test Report 2
Differential sensitivity of three marine invertebrates to copper assessed using multiple biomarkers - PubMed
Understanding how biomarkers relate to each other on exposure to particular contaminants in different species is key to their widespread application in environmental management. However, few studies have systematically used multiple biomarkers in more than a single species to determine the...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
*Source:
If you want some in depth papers to look over on the toxicity of copper in water, I can share a few, but it's a murky topic for us hobbyists because of all the variables (particularly since there are a number of variables that the average hobbyist doesn't have the ability to measure, such as DOC), so I doubt they'd be particularly helpful for you here.
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TokenReefer
Valuable Member
Anectodal, but my chaeto started taking off by dosing (a small amount of) iron from the drugstore. Years worth in a bottle. Was it the iron? Idk but I do know io is low in it which led me down that road... Fwiw
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Azra
New Member
I'm using Aquaforest reef salt which states that's enriched with micro nutrients (don't know exact amounts-I don't have package near me right now) and I'm doing water change once a week.
I know that copper free fertilizer is hard to find, so it's basically look for one that has it least. Flourish is available here, so I guess that'll be then.
I was considering mixing dry ferts but I need something simple that I can ask my partner to do when I'm not at home.
I know that copper free fertilizer is hard to find, so it's basically look for one that has it least. Flourish is available here, so I guess that'll be then.
I was considering mixing dry ferts but I need something simple that I can ask my partner to do when I'm not at home.
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Diastro
Active Member
Is nilcoc g available to you? That's what I use. Specifically niloc g's pps pro dosing dry fertilizer pack. It has both macro and micro nutrients, perfect for macroalgae. They also sell only the micro nutrient mixture I believe, that's probably the equivalent to cheato grow while the macro nutrients are mostly equivalent to neonitro and neophos.
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GARRIGA
2500 Club Member
F/2 is used for microalgae (green water). Wonder if that would be a source of nutrients and minerals for macro. Available on Amazon and eBay and since it’s a generic formula it’s made by several sources and should be available from labs suppliers world wide. Assuming it would work the same with macro.
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. Phytoplankton N
