Sump ato problems.

[fl3xlinton]

I have a trigger crystal 30 sump. I’m not new to saltwater but new to sumps been running an aio for some time now. Just curious if anyone’s ever run into problems keeping their overflow and return pump on the same speed. It seems like every time I get them right the levels flip flop and either the display is too low or the return pump is getting close to dry locking so it doesn’t break.

 

[texdoc77]

I'm not sure I fully understand. In your heading you mention ATO problem, but no mention of it in the question. What kind of overflow are you running? Herbie/bean animal? Are you having problems with the ATO in any way?

 

[fl3xlinton]

I'm not sure I fully understand. In your heading you mention ATO problem, but no mention of it in the question. What kind of overflow are you running? Herbie/bean animal? Are you having problems with the ATO in any way?

Well the levels in the return area of my sump is causing my ato to dump the whole 5 gallon bucket into the sump which hasn’t been a huge problem so far but I’ve been lucky.

 

[fl3xlinton]

I'm not sure I fully understand. In your heading you mention ATO problem, but no mention of it in the question. What kind of overflow are you running? Herbie/bean animal? Are you having problems with the ATO in any way?

Like I’ll have it set perfect and it’ll run good until evap comes around and takes the water out a little bit and the flow speed changes. Maybe move the ato meter into the tank? Idk

 

[DSFa]

Like I’ll have it set perfect and it’ll run good until evap comes around and takes the water out a little bit and the flow speed changes. Maybe move the ato meter into the tank? Idk

How much water is going in from ATO, ie speed of it. If evap is going the ATO should be able to keep up with it and hence won’t have lower levels affecting return etc. maybe open your ato return valve more and allow it to flow faster not too sure. Proceed with caution and monitor as you do it. Goodluck!

 

[W1ngz]

You will never perfectly match pump flow to drain. The drains and overflows are typically designed to take up the small variations in pump flow, so you are protected from dry running your pump or flooding the tank.

The problem is going to be how your drains are set up and tuned. So, first question:

What type of drain are you using? Single (durso), double (herbie) or triple (Bean animal). Pics would be helpful.

 

[W1ngz]

Maybe move the ato meter into the tank? Idk

What do you mean by ATO meter? The ATO sensor, float valve or whatever you are using HAS to be in the return section of the sump for this to work. It cannot be in the display.

The baffles and weir maintain the level in the tank. It should never change unless something is leaking where it shouldn't.
The baffles in the sump maintain the skimmer chamber and everything before it at a consistent level as the water must flow over, and not under the last baffle.

Only the return section level varies with evaporation. You cannot put a level sensing device anywhere else.

 

[fl3xlinton]

What do you mean by ATO meter? The ATO sensor, float valve or whatever you are using HAS to be in the return section of the sump for this to work. It cannot be in the display.

The baffles and weir maintain the level in the tank. It should never change unless something is leaking where it shouldn't.
The baffles in the sump maintain the skimmer chamber and everything before it at a consistent level as the water must flow over, and not under the last baffle.

Only the return section level varies with evaporation. You cannot put a level sensing device anywhere else.

Yea you’re right the sensor
My bad. Just having a hard time with it.

 

[fl3xlinton]

You will never perfectly match pump flow to drain. The drains and overflows are typically designed to take up the small variations in pump flow, so you are protected from dry running your pump or flooding the tank.

The problem is going to be how your drains are set up and tuned. So, first question:

What type of drain are you using? Single (durso), double (herbie) or triple (Bean animal). Pics would be helpful.

It’s a single I think they call it a stockman standpipe or something. I’m limited for space so it was my only option in terms of the one slot overflow I picked.

 

[fl3xlinton]

You will never perfectly match pump flow to drain. The drains and overflows are typically designed to take up the small variations in pump flow, so you are protected from dry running your pump or flooding the tank.

The problem is going to be how your drains are set up and tuned. So, first question:

What type of drain are you using? Single (durso), double (herbie) or triple (Bean animal). Pics would be helpful.

It’s a single I think they call it a stockman standpipe or something. I’m limited for space so it was my only option in terms of the one slot overflow I picked. Yea. I recreated this one almost to a t. This one isn’t mine. I’m not home at the moment but it’s exactly this one.

 

[fl3xlinton]

I'm not sure I fully understand. In your heading you mention ATO problem, but no mention of it in the question. What kind of overflow are you running? Herbie/bean animal? Are you having problems with the ATO in any way?

I’m not sure if it’s the ato or not. It’s a brand I’ve never used before but I couldn’t find the one I have on my 40 that I like a lot. It’s like a triangle sensor that goes in the water and has three different levels it senses. But it seems to me when the ato starts putting water into the return the pump will start sucking more and more water and the ato will keep feeding water from the bucket until it’s empty. It did this once and my tank was so close to an overflow I was freaking out didn’t know what to do.

 

[W1ngz]

If I recall, a stockman is the one with multiple holes all the way up the top end of the pipe? You may not have enough holes spread over a long enough length of the pipe.

 

[W1ngz]

It sounds to me like you have an ATO problem, not a pump or drain problem. More water in the return section increases the flow, less slows it down. If that level isn't consistent, the flow won't be either.

 

[ROB2005]

Questions for you:

1.Is your bucket higher than your sump? You may be having a continuous siphon after the pump turns off. Let the bucket sit lower than the sump or install a siphon breaker.

2. Is your pump moving the water faster than the drains can bring it down? Throttle the output with a gate or ball valve.

3. Can you show us a pic of your ATO setup?

 

[Greybeard]

Sometimes folks new to sump systems can take a while to get a handle on things.

Here's the key: The return pump must be the slowest capacity device in the system. Pump pushes X GHP, your tank overflow must be able to handle more than X GPH. There is no balance, it's never going to match. The object it to make sure, no matter how much water you're pumping, the overflow can handle more.

If the water level in your TANK goes up much above the overflow wier, your overflow is not keeping up with the pump. Bad juju. That's how floods happen.

 

[fl3xlinton]

Sometimes folks new to sump systems can take a while to get a handle on things.

Here's the key: The return pump must be the slowest capacity device in the system. Pump pushes X GHP, your tank overflow must be able to handle more than X GPH. There is no balance, it's never going to match. The object it to make sure, no matter how much water you're pumping, the overflow can handle more.

If the water level in your TANK goes up much above the overflow wier, your overflow is not keeping up with the pump. Bad juju. That's how floods happen.

Without the ato I can keep it pretty good but I add the ato and **** hits the fan lol I might switch out atos use my reefbreeders one on the sump and the other brand one on my aio

 

[fl3xlinton]

Questions for you:

1.Is your bucket higher than your sump? You may be having a continuous siphon after the pump turns off. Let the bucket sit lower than the sump or install a siphon breaker.

2. Is your pump moving the water faster than the drains can bring it down? Throttle the output with a gate or ball valve.

3. Can you show us a pic of your ATO setup?

1. My bucket is next to the sump.
2. The pump is a controllable pump the skimz quietwhatever and I usually have itsetup to go slower than the overflow. Although if my display level gets too low the stockman starts to gurgle real bad like it’s pulling too much water. I get it dialed in and have to fiddle with it whenever I turn the ato on.

 

[fl3xlinton]

If I recall, a stockman is the one with multiple holes all the way up the top end of the pipe? You may not have enough holes spread over a long enough length of the pipe.

I think the pipe is good I made one with two rows of holes but it was too short and the water fall it created in the overflow was loud. So I re did it made the pipe longer and added another row of holes. I can’t add too many more unless I can find a longer coupling

 

[W1ngz]

Check the ATO for siphoning as mentioned above. Make sure the sump end of the ATO hose is high above the water line.

 

[RocketEngineer]

Based on what I read, you have an ATO that is siphoning once the pump is off. That is causing it to dump a huge amount of water into the system that’s causing secondary effects. You need to add an air break to the ATO outlet or use a pump that won’t siphon. Once that’s corrected, the rest of the setup should behave a lot better.