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doubleshot00
2500 Club Member
Like how did you all figure this out? Did you have a mentor?
Sump help
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Your primary, in this case the line with the yellow tube coming out the elbow to the back, should not be sucking any air. If it is sucking air, the air will prevent the line from creating a full siphon. Your goal with two drains is this.
Drain 1: Primary drain, which is at a full siphon all the time. You adjust the flow rate through this line via gate valve. This will help you to match water into the sump with water out of the sump. You want your primary drain to flow slightly LESS water into the sump compared to what you pump out of the sump. The "left over" water will be handled by your secondary drain.
Drain 2: Secondary drain, this drain handles the return of any "left over" water from the display to the sump. This should really only get a trickle of water down this drain. You want this drain vented in order to help quiet the drain down. Its common that without a vent you will get a "sucking" noise as the drain tries to suck air down with the water.
If your sump is draining faster than it is refilling, its very likely that the issue is that you are not achieving a full siphon. You'd be surprised at how much more water flows through a pipe at full siphon. In fact, most people need to dial back the flow, hence a gate valve to act as a restrictor in the flow.
Hope this helps with your issues.
Drain 1: Primary drain, which is at a full siphon all the time. You adjust the flow rate through this line via gate valve. This will help you to match water into the sump with water out of the sump. You want your primary drain to flow slightly LESS water into the sump compared to what you pump out of the sump. The "left over" water will be handled by your secondary drain.
Drain 2: Secondary drain, this drain handles the return of any "left over" water from the display to the sump. This should really only get a trickle of water down this drain. You want this drain vented in order to help quiet the drain down. Its common that without a vent you will get a "sucking" noise as the drain tries to suck air down with the water.
If your sump is draining faster than it is refilling, its very likely that the issue is that you are not achieving a full siphon. You'd be surprised at how much more water flows through a pipe at full siphon. In fact, most people need to dial back the flow, hence a gate valve to act as a restrictor in the flow.
Hope this helps with your issues.
This is not the case at all. A 1" drain line at full siphon will flow 3x more than your pump can pump at full power. This has nothing to do with the design of the overflow but rather how the drains are set up. Read my prior post.
CoralB
5000 Club Member
Ok so it’s kind up set up like a herbie style . That being said the shut off valve to the the lower side should be turned closed just enough to where the water just starts to dribble over the higher pipe that way the taller pipe is a emergency which will take up the extra water the pump is putting out . It should stop the gurgling . Not sure why you have the small tubes on the outside of the tank further in the down the pipe . If you have to use them I feel they should be on the inside with the tubing going down into the pipe about six inches . If you have to slow the volume of water going into the tank you can divert some of the water back into the sump using a t with a valve or a manifold system with shut off valve . Hope that helps .
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doubleshot00
2500 Club Member
When I adjust the valve to keep it silent the return pump pulls more water from the sump than water that is coming in. If that makes sense.
If i open the valve its gets louder then the pump can be cranked to 100% if i want technically.
You need to get rid of the elbows with tube sticking out of them in first pic to get a “full siphon”. You should have a valve on one drain (primary) which should be lower in water than the secondary drain which is just slightly under water level. We’re talking water level in overflow box hear, and the water level in box should fall 1/2 to one inch from display.
You don’t have to “balance“ the flow between pump and overflow. Using the valve on primary drain you have to balance the flow between primary and secondary, so that the primary is completely submerged in water, and the secondary is not. It also takes a minute or three to purge the air from primary to achieve full siphon flow. Watching a vid on tuning herbie or bean animal overflows would surely help to understand.
You don’t have to “balance“ the flow between pump and overflow. Using the valve on primary drain you have to balance the flow between primary and secondary, so that the primary is completely submerged in water, and the secondary is not. It also takes a minute or three to purge the air from primary to achieve full siphon flow. Watching a vid on tuning herbie or bean animal overflows would surely help to understand.
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doubleshot00
2500 Club Member
This is what I would like to do but the limited space inside the box is what kills me. Idk how to do it.
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doubleshot00
2500 Club Member
The secondary as you see is open no gate valve. Is this correct?
Yes
From the looks of your pics an elbow facing down in overflow box for primary, and an elbow facing up for secondary would work. You don’t want the water falling too far into overflow from display to avoid noise/splashing. You can adjust this because the height of the secondary determines how far water falls into overflow
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A simple street 90* elbow will work for the main drain. You may have to trim it to get it to fit though. Having it at a slight angle will work fine as well though. It doesn't necessarily need to be pointed straight down. Just far enough from the surface of the water in the overflow box to keep it from sucking air. Your secondary drain seems fine the way it is.
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doubleshot00
2500 Club Member
Just did this and return pump side still runs dry.
I did take the pipe out of the secondary side so its just a 90 degree elbow. The water started to flow over but it was so loud it was unbelievable.
You’re doing something wrong. There’s no way your pump is too much flow for two drains. You need enough water in sump so your pump doesn’t run dry, and a siphon break on your return line so you don’t get an overflow in sump when pump goes off
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doubleshot00
2500 Club Member
Ill record a video.
fish farmer
2500 Club Member
Do this....seal up those vent holes on the overflow pipes and see what happens.
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doubleshot00
2500 Club Member
Ok here is how i have it. It’s quiet now and hold siphon for the last 30 minutes. Pumps running around 59% now ti keep up.
Is it just a fine balance between the gate valve and the dc controllable pump?
Rmckoy
7500 Club Member
Typically … a overflow is 2x the size of the return line .
For example if your return line is 3/4” the overflow should be 1 1/2 “
The bigger the overflow it will not restrict the flow allowing you to increase the return pump flow .
another example I have a 1.5” hose for my overflow that’s gravity fed .
it flows into the sump and I use a 15000 L jeabo pump at 90% as a return
For example if your return line is 3/4” the overflow should be 1 1/2 “
The bigger the overflow it will not restrict the flow allowing you to increase the return pump flow .
another example I have a 1.5” hose for my overflow that’s gravity fed .
it flows into the sump and I use a 15000 L jeabo pump at 90% as a return
Nice
Ok here is how i have it. It’s quiet now and hold siphon for the last 30 minutes. Pumps running around 59% now ti keep up.
Is it just a fine balance between the gate valve and the dc controllable pump?
Now you have to figure out max water level in sump to avoid overflow flood from sump if/when pump goes off.
Turn off return pump and measure how much water falls to sump. Too much = flood . Use that measurement to determine max water level in sump. You should definitely have a small siphon break hole drill into return line slightly under water level of display.
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