Supplementing T5 with Metal halide for shimmer?

[Miami Reef]

Any difference in shimmer effect from LED vs metal halides?

 

[Jekyl]

Any difference in shimmer effect from LED vs metal halides?

I'd supplement with kessils. Halide with your current 8bulb T5 would be a crazy amount of light.

 

[Miami Reef]

I'd supplement with kessils. Halide with your current 8bulb T5 would be a crazy amount of light.

Ok. But I just want to let you know I’m only using 6 of the 8 bulbs because the par was wayyyyy too strong even when raised to max height. I was getting 500-600 on top with 8 bulbs.

 

[Jekyl]

Ok. But I just want to let you know I’m only using 6 of the 8 bulbs because the par was wayyyyy too strong even when raised to max height. I was getting 500-600 on top with 8 bulbs.

I don't have T5 but they are a lot more forgiving in the par numbers than LED. Single point of light vs broad range. With halide those number may even double. I do have kessils though and the shimmer can't be beat.

 

[Smite]

Normally you'd be looking to supplement MH with t5s. Your par values are fine for t5 if you're going to keep sps. If you want shimmer I'd agree with kessils they were designed to mimic metal halide. MH with that many t5s would be huge par

 

[jda]

The shimmer between the Mh and Kessils are not even close to the same look. If you want the MH shimmer, then look at some 150w Halides. If you like the Kessil, then fine. Some people cannot stand the Kessil shimmer when coming from MH - one of the main complaints for years.

Too much PAR from MH and T5 is not really a thing like it is for LED. You probably don't need it, but it also does not burn or kill corals.

 

[Miami Reef]

I don't have T5 but they are a lot more forgiving in the par numbers than LED. Single point of light vs broad range. With halide those number may even double. I do have kessils though and the shimmer can't be beat.

Why are T5’s more forgiving? Are you saying 150 par of T5 would be better for an sps vs 150 par of LED?

 

[jda]

I could go on for hours about this... but in short you never heard of T5s, MH, MV, HPS, etc burning coral with 1000+ PAR. Sunlight outside for me in Missouri was over 2000 with no issues. Most LED over 350-400 PAR will burn most coral - not all, but most. It is about quality.... probably harsh spikes in some spectrum that are just too much combined with lack of IR (not measured with a PAR meter) for Emerson Effect (ability of corals to process energy from Photosystem II to Photosystem I). There are some other theories like lenses and just users messing with them too much (although those that set them and leave them have issues with high PAR too). In the end, it is true in nearly all tanks, so while we figure out the why it is a good idea just to not try and beat the odds, although a very few have.

Lastly, PAR is just from about 420 to 680 nm, or so. Some sensors are better, but even then, 400 to 700 is the range. Corals use more light than this. Most LEDs are made to pop a PAR meter in the visible range (400-700) and do not offer much beyond this - some do like Orphek. A T5 and especially MH make spectrum from 350 to 850 that can be beneficial... so 150 PAR from a T5 is more than a LED and a MH is even more than the T5 even though the meter cannot read this.

Facts of Light by Tullio at a MACNA a few years back goes into all of this in depth. It can be dry and slow to some, but he explains it all. ...just facts and not a one-type over another type of deal. The video is on YouTube.

 

[Miami Reef]

I could go on for hours about this... but in short you never heard of T5s, MH, MV, HPS, etc burning coral with 1000+ PAR. Sunlight outside for me in Missouri was over 2000 with no issues. Most LED over 350-400 PAR will burn most coral - not all, but most. It is about quality.... probably harsh spikes in some spectrum that are just too much combined with lack of IR (not measured with a PAR meter) for Emerson Effect (ability of corals to process energy from Photosystem II to Photosystem I). There are some other theories like lenses and just users messing with them too much (although those that set them and leave them have issues with high PAR too). In the end, it is true in nearly all tanks, so while we figure out the why it is a good idea just to not try and beat the odds, although a very few have.

Lastly, PAR is just from about 420 to 680 nm, or so. Some sensors are better, but even then, 400 to 700 is the range. Corals use more light than this. Most LEDs are made to pop a PAR meter in the visible range (400-700) and do not offer much beyond this - some do like Orphek. A T5 and especially MH make spectrum from 350 to 850 that can be beneficial... so 150 PAR from a T5 is more than a LED and a MH is even more than the T5 even though the meter cannot read this.

Facts of Light by Tullio at a MACNA a few years back goes into all of this in depth. It can be dry and slow to some, but he explains it all. ...just facts and not a one-type over another type of deal. The video is on YouTube.

You are a awesome! I had acro frags on the top of my tank that all died and I'm sure it was from my LED’s. Im so happy I have T5’s now!

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Ur gonna want to supplement with led bars for shimmer.
D

 

[tehmadreefer]

Forget shimmer it does nothing but provide prettty lights. Run all 8 bulbs as you should in hyper fixtures and enjoy. Running only 6 will cause additional issues an they are not meant to run partially unless you disconnected those particular ballasts.

 

[Jekyl]

You are a awesome! I had acro frags on the top of my tank that all died and I'm sure it was from my LED’s. Im so happy I have T5’s now!

I currently have 2 kessil 360we over my 90 gallon. I'm in the process of actually turning them down. I think I was blasting my corals and negatively affecting them. I'm also getting the T5 hybrid fixture and making the T5 the primary light with my kessil turned down just for the visual effects and a small bump to the par.

 

[CanuckReefer]

Any difference in shimmer effect from LED vs metal halides?

In looking at your hood setup the other day on another thread, the heat is needing dissipation now with new T5 and LED....you're gonna have to rethink your entire hood setup if this is the way you gonna go imo..

 

[Miami Reef]

In looking at your hood setup the other day on another thread, the heat is needing dissipation now with new T5 and LED....you're gonna have to rethink your entire hood setup if this is the way you gonna go imo..

I'm adding vents to the hood tomorrow. I'm not adding LED’s nor Metal halides. I was just wondering

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

U can always add small computer style fans.
D

 

[piranhaman00]

The “kessil shimmer” would be very overpowered by the T5s and you would not see it, even with AL hybrid fixtures that run 4 T5 bulbs really mute the shimmer, with 6-8 bulbs there would be no benefit visually

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

^ this

 

[rtparty]

jda already nailed it so I will just add in my 2 cents that Kessil shimmer is way too much and actually made me sick to sit and watch my tank. I had almost zero surface agitation on the Kessil side to try and limit it.

Nothing in the hobby beats halide shimmer. Some get close but never the same. It truly is a sad time in the hobby watching how much harder "we" have made it to be successful.

Enjoy the new T5s and maybe look at the some LED bars down the road if you want a little shimmer added back.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Fwiw i run 8 bulb tells light with giessman bulbs. My rapid led.moonlight bar i mad has six 5w legs. Even full blast on the dimmer. I barely notice the blue in the shadowing.
Ud need what I have x2
D

 

[jda]

For anybody battling heat, get a good fan. This can nearly always get it done. I am talking about a Vornado or a Honeywell and blow it across the top and not some DC 4" fans. Turn it on when the lights come on and don't get cute and try and wait until the tank heats up with a temp probe. These have always kept my tanks cool even without the AC on both in Humid Missouri and Dry Colorado. I have a few friends in Houston that use just fans in the summer in that humidity and they start at 78 and end at 79.

Heat was always a problem that people could solve until LEDs came along and people wanted to use it as an excuse. Heat from lights is not even as hard as long division or multiplying fractions.

FWIW - I had some ReefBrite XHOs on my tank for a bit and you could not even tell that they were on with the haldies. Then I moved them to a frag tank with 4x GE 6500k T5s and you still could not even see them. They did look good after the T5s turned off.