Switching from LED to Metal Halide

[Wildcats1023]

Nice talk about the bulbs here!!
I love metal halides and it's the very best light to grow corals, anemones and zoas.
All my zoas were exploding in color and size when I had them. They just love those bulbs!!
I had them running only for 4 or 6 hours a day with supplementary tubes back then.
I'm using an ATI T5 system, but I miss my halides!!

Grandis.

How is your growth and color with the ATI lights?

 

[DSC reef]

Say no to MH!!

Lol. When I'm in the store and tell the staff I run halide/T5 they always say couldn't have better light....

 

[Tariq]

Corals can adjust to a wide variety of (stable) conditions, hence there's not a specific recepie to have a successful tank.

In my opinion, led light fixtures offer way too many options with tweaking the color spectrum. Constant tweaking irritates corals, they spend their energy adjusting to the new spectrum and don't grow.

I believe the success with MH and T5 is simply the fact that once the bulbs are installed, there's no more tweaking.

 

[A. grandis]

How is your growth and color with the ATI lights?

The growth rate was faster with the halides, of course, and the zoas acted differently when the halides were on. They aren't as open/big now as with the halides...
The halides give them more of what they get from the sun. They look like more when they are in the ocean in all the aspects: size, pigmentation, behaviors, etc.. Specially if you can offer the right water temperature with the chiller. It's the best!!
My halides were 2 X 250s and I had 2 actinic tubes back then. The light set up was totally different then what I've got today, of course. I get 6 T5 bulbs now, on an 10+ year old ATI Power Module that I love.
The only thing I had problem with the halides is that my house was way too hot back then and we decided to change.
I didn't really need the halides too because it was only a 55gal! ;Wideyed But I'll tell you that I really miss those times...;Stig

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Corals can adjust to a wide variety of (stable) conditions, hence there's not a specific recepie to have a successful tank.

In my opinion, led light fixtures offer way too many options with tweaking the color spectrum. Constant tweaking irritates corals, they spend their energy adjusting to the new spectrum and don't grow.

I believe the success with MH and T5 is simply the fact that once the bulbs are installed, there's no more tweaking.

I agree with that and follow.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Lol. When I'm in the store and tell the staff I run halide/T5 they always say couldn't have better light....

Yeah, they all know... halides and T5s are the best!
If you've had them, you know...

Grandis.

 

[Centerline]

Nice talk about the bulbs here!!
I love metal halides and it's the very best light to grow corals, anemones and zoas.
All my zoas were exploding in color and size when I had them. They just love those bulbs!!
I had them running only for 4 or 6 hours a day with supplementary tubes back then.
I'm using an ATI T5 system, but I miss my halides!!

Grandis.

As a legit light agnostic, I have to agree that metal halides rule!

 

[Crabs McJones]

Looking for opinions and experiences of reefers who switched from LED to metal halide. I have a mixed reef right now with decent growth and colors. I just don't have the colors that some have that I have seen that use halides. Any advice would be great. If you have made the same switch what was your increase in electric costs?

What LEDs are you currently using?

 

[Wildcats1023]

On my 90 I changed to the SB reef retro boards and the 30 I have Chinese LED

 

[Centerline]

Lol. When I'm in the store and tell the staff I run halide/T5 they always say couldn't have better light....

But @WWC really has gone full blow LED. I was soooooo surprised to see them over the 900 - that's a very deep tank compared to what the average reefer is used to and initially I questioned if Radions would be able to provide enough light towards the bottom of the tank. The first cube in the lobby (Elos I think) looks absolutely awesome with Radions over it and it certainly looks healthy enough. I haven't seen the big tank in the lobby sense the crash but it will be interesting to see if they went all LEDs over it as well. My guess is that they did. Personally I would put a bunch of 400 watt SE Radiums and T5s over it. One thing about their LED placement that is notable is how high above the tanks the lights are.

 

[A. grandis]

But @WWC really has gone full blow LED. I was soooooo surprised to see them over the 900 - that's a very deep tank compared to what the average reefer is used to and initially I questioned if Radions would be able to provide enough light towards the bottom of the tank. The first cube in the lobby (Elos I think) looks absolutely awesome with Radions over it and it certainly looks healthy enough. I haven't seen the big tank in the lobby sense the crash but it will be interesting to see if they went all LEDs over it as well. My guess is that they did. Personally I would put a bunch of 400 watt SE Radiums and T5s over it. One thing about their LED placement that is notable is how high above the tanks the lights are.

Yeah, I also wouldn't remove the halides, of course...
They put that high to be able to get rid of the disco. They simply ramp up the intensity and bring them to the skies...
That way it blends the colors from the individual bulbs too and make it look good to the customers. Too bad that many of the home tanks will look so different from the store. Unless they do the same. But still wouldn't be exactly the same because of difference of the depth of water...
They tried to put their old T5s up like that, but the T5s can't ramp up the intensity, so it didn't work. They decided to compared that anyways with the LEDs and it wasn't fair at all. But they still published on a nice clean convincing PDF .To get the best out of T5s it needs to be inches from the water surface with 24" max. deep. That's what it's designed for.
Grandis.

 

[mcarroll]

They put that high to be able to get rid of the disco.

I bet they put them that high to make working in the tank more possible.

 

[A. grandis]

I bet they put them that high to make working in the tank more possible.

Well, that could also be true... you're right.
Man, I do hope they go back with those halides/T5s.
So much better for the corals, clams, anemones and zoas...

Grandis.

 

[Centerline]

Well, that could also be true... you're right.
Man, I do hope they go back with those halides/T5s.
So much better for the corals, clams, anemones and zoas...

Grandis.

I don't know about clams. I have seen very good results with both Hydra HDs and Gen4 Radions and clams.

 

[A. grandis]

I don't know about clams. I have seen very good results with both Hydra HDs and Gen4 Radions and clams.

I've seen "very good" results with across and other corals with LEDs too, but the "best" was with halides...
That's my opinion... I compare the results in tanks with how they would look in the ocean/sun.
Grandis.

 

[mcarroll]

I compare the results in tanks with how they would look in the ocean/sun.

Even considering our halides, T5's and LED's lights you'll find over a reef are pretty homogenous....we succeed in getting "a lot of actinic blue" and we succeed in getting "aesthetically pleasing tanks". But I'm not sure how realistic the color is in any of the electrically-lit reefs I can think of. Shallow reefs sit in water that looks like windex....google if you don't know what Real Reef Keepers think of the color of windex.

In contrast with our tanks, there are such wide variances in the quality of light where our corals are found in the wild. What depth/environment are you considering?

 

[A. grandis]

Even considering our halides, T5's and LED's lights you'll find over a reef are pretty homogenous....we succeed in getting "a lot of actinic blue" and we succeed in getting "aesthetically pleasing tanks". But I'm not sure how realistic the color is in any of the electrically-lit reefs I can think of. Shallow reefs sit in water that looks like windex....google if you don't know what Real Reef Keepers think of the color of windex.

In contrast with our tanks, there are such wide variances in the quality of light where our corals are found in the wild. What depth/environment are you considering?

The corals you guys receive are mainly from shallow waters, considered by many to be down to about 45 feet deep or so. This is where the majority of scleractinian corals with zooxanthellae reside.
I consider all those reef depths and environments that receive sun light and have those corals yo want to keep. Again, that is considered/called shallow reefs by many...
The spectrum of each environment will depend on many aspects like suspension in water column and quantity of algae, etc.. Now... that is independent of depth.
You just pick the one environment you want to reproduce, or a specific spectrum you like, and use the right halides of 6500K, 10000K, 12000K, 14000K and 20000K...
Many corals from the stores in the mainland and elsewhere will adapt well to any metal halides/T5s or T5s only. That's another great positive point, not like the majority of LEDs.
I personally think that 10000K - 14000K represents the best and is the best for the majority of your Acropora corals to grow/reproduce naturally healthy, for example.
The T5 only setups are great for shallow tanks and normally halides for more than 24"... But there are lot's of shallower tanks with halides too. One could easily use a 70W, 150W or 175W bulb over a 24" deep tank... And that's great!!!
Again... only my opinion... That's how I grew up... That's what I think... That's how I see.
I strongly think that watching videos of tanks with T5s and MHs will open the eyes of many LED users.
If I could have SPS corals and had to pay so much money for them, like you guys do, would never ever waste time and money with any LED fixtures. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be hard on anyone. If I would mean that I would say, cause I don't care.

I don't want to be known as an anti-LEDs. I'm just a halide/T5HO guy.

Now... about "aesthetically pleasing tanks" in regards to actinics:
I think ATI Blue Plus bulbs are the very best in many aspects and specially for dusk time. You can see the fluorescent pigments too...
Most LEDs also can try to reproduce the actinic, but IMO the results aren't as good, and many times the spectrum look also so artificial to MY eyes, besides the weird "billions" of shimmering around. Far from the natural environment we see in the ocean which is where your corals come from. But it's a matter of taste too. I'm not here to offend anyone, nor to defend my thoughts. I also know that's what they have in stores, and probably new people learned from them ?!?

This time that we are living right now is a time of opinions. That's what I've been learning. There is not an exact vision for reefing like we had in the mid 90's.

I think we all need to understand that and try to respect others' choices. I'm trying more and more now...
Would be great if we all would consider advices and opinions to the point of searching and try.
If you only hear about LED LED LED this and that... you are going to get into the religion of it, defending it until you die!
I heard some friends of mine telling me to try the LEDs and did try them over a 125gal. tank for a while, just to find out that my old T5 fixture over my 75gal. was still much better for my zoas... I also saw most of the friends all over the globe going back to their old T5 fixtures and I still see happening it today, as well with MHs, so it's not only me.
But that's is again a personal view.
It's all good! Nice chat with you guys as aways...
Here is a video that I like very much:
Cheers!
Grandis.

 

[wooglins]

I always find the saving money thing on LED funny as we are talking a 59 dollar bulb. Electric cost can be a wash at least it was for me when I switched from Radions to Reefbrite MH/LED fixture.

So here is a quick example. Three years or so ago I dumped my Hamilton halide t5 fixture for a pair of reef radiance clones. That change cost me 250 dollars.

My Hamilton fixture cost 1k and bulbs (2 mh and 2 t5 actinics) cost me about 250 per year. 2 halides and 4 t5 bulbs yearly. I used the led fixture for 3 years and moved it on for about what I had in it. Nearly zero cost.

MH cost me over 10 years:

1000 : fixture
2500 : bulbs

Total 3500 or 350 per year.

Led cost over 3 years

300 : fixture
-200 sale of fixture after 3 years.

Total : 33.33 per year.

New fixture cost me 700 and I plan on using it for 5 years. TCO is 140 per year. Nearly half bulbs cost alone for original halide fixture. Will be less based on longer use or sale. And to boot everything is ramped and automated. No heat to speak of my chiller barely works to keep tank at 76. With halides it Ralf 24/7 and if it was off tanknreached 83 degrees.

Performance has been equal or better than mh/ t5 combo.

 

[A. grandis]

So here is a quick example. Three years or so ago I dumped my Hamilton halide t5 fixture for a pair of reef radiance clones. That change cost me 250 dollars.

My Hamilton fixture cost 1k and bulbs (2 mh and 2 t5 actinics) cost me about 250 per year. 2 halides and 4 t5 bulbs yearly. I used the led fixture for 3 years and moved it on for about what I had in it. Nearly zero cost.

MH cost me over 10 years:

1000 : fixture
2500 : bulbs

Total 3500 or 350 per year.

Led cost over 3 years

300 : fixture
-200 sale of fixture after 3 years.

Total : 33.33 per year.

New fixture cost me 700 and I plan on using it for 5 years. TCO is 140 per year. Nearly half bulbs cost alone for original halide fixture. Will be less based on longer use or sale. And to boot everything is ramped and automated. No heat to speak of my chiller barely works to keep tank at 76. With halides it Ralf 24/7 and if it was off tanknreached 83 degrees.

Performance has been equal or better than mh/ t5 combo.

Hummm... I've never changed MH for LEDs, but I changed T5s for LEDs to try.
In my case the electricity was about the same with no changes even after a year of LEDs running.
The LEDs were about $350.00 back in 2014. I could get only about $200.00 for them when I sold after a year, I think.
Went back to the old 8 bulb Power Module T5 fixture and paying the same amount for electricity.
I had to sell the system after a while for other reasons including space...

Using halides you will spend more electricity than using LEDs mostly because of the heat, of course.
You'll need to have a chiller running. But the results are superb to me.

When I had my halides it was over a 55gal. Now... there were 2 pendants of 250W halides plus 2 tubes. The halides were on only 4 hours a day!! Tubes were on for about 8 hours... Growth was totally insane and colors that I never had without the halides. Another world!!!! No T5s, no LEDs comes close to halides IMHO. Some of the pigments I've seen in the wild are only able to be kept/produced in the presence of the sun or metal halides. That's the truth that I know by experience.

Again, if you had halides, you know!

Just to talk to you guys I feel like setting up a new zoa system with halides/t5s. That's how much I like them!
I wish I had some more room. Maybe when my kids move out in the future... I want to set up a tank in their houses! Haha!!

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

To enrich this thread...
I like the way he approaches the fact that he prefer halides.
His fixture is so great!
Grandis.