Tank Un-cycled Help please

[Ryan9316]

13.5G Fluval 7 Months old (cycled after two months until 5 months)
2 clowns, one dotty back, one shrimp, one starfish, 3 snails. (I feed them the bare minimum)
Parameters:
Alk:9.2
CA:430
Mg:1300
Nitrate:20ppm
Ammonia: Ridiculously high

About two months ago I removed my small refugium, and replaced it with a Icecap protein skimmer, at the same time I also switched to using Polyp Lab One. A couple days after that I put too much polyp lab one in my tank (I think). The next day the tank was super foggy, so I did water changes every day until it cleared up. About a week after that my Acro's started dying, low and behold I had **** tons of Ammonia. So I said, well something must be dead. So I cleaned the entire tank (the filtration media was cleaned with fresh Salt water). I also removed 50% of the sand (didn't realize it can store bacteria).

So my Ammonia kept going up, for two months, I did water changes added prime here and there, added two huge bottles of biospira, and since then every day have added microbacter. Yet, my Ammonia instead of steadily dropping, is just going up. Ideas?

Thanks

 

[tankstudy]

Run a nitrite test.

 

[Ryan9316]

Run a nitrite test.

Lost my Nitrite kit, I'll go get one.

 

[brandon429]

hey guess what: its not uncycled. prime ruins all follow up test readings, including nitrite

wanna deconstruct what happened? post an updated full tank shot and we w
B

your tank is still cycled, this will be mighty easy to fix buying nothing at all. pic=get an action=fixed. 7 months + bioload can never, ever uncycle unless you boil, freeze, dry, or medicate.

its possible to know your ammonia status off what you've typed alone with an updated pic which shows animal behavior, clouding, etc using no other testing/purchases.

 

[Brew12]

13.5G Fluval 7 Months old (cycled after two months until 5 months)
2 clowns, one dotty back, one shrimp, one starfish, 3 snails. (I feed them the bare minimum)
Parameters:
Alk:9.2
CA:430
Mg:1300
Nitrate:20ppm
Ammonia: Ridiculously high

About two months ago I removed my small refugium, and replaced it with a Icecap protein skimmer, at the same time I also switched to using Polyp Lab One. A couple days after that I put too much polyp lab one in my tank (I think). The next day the tank was super foggy, so I did water changes every day until it cleared up. About a week after that my Acro's started dying, low and behold I had **** tons of Ammonia. So I said, well something must be dead. So I cleaned the entire tank (the filtration media was cleaned with fresh Salt water). I also removed 50% of the sand (didn't realize it can store bacteria).

So my Ammonia kept going up, for two months, I did water changes added prime here and there, added two huge bottles of biospira, and since then every day have added microbacter. Yet, my Ammonia instead of steadily dropping, is just going up. Ideas?

Thanks

Have you tried a different ammonia test kit?

 

[W1ngz]

Get a seachem ammonia badge, or maybe a Seneye monitor. Both measure free ammonia NH3 (the toxic kind), where most test kits measure total ammonia (NH3 + NH4). Prime and most other methods of ammonia detox convert NH3 to NH4, which messes up the liquid tests.

Like Brandon said, tanks don't just 'uncycle' themselves unless you dose an antibacterial, or decide to rinse off the rock and sand with chlorinated tap water, which kills the bacteria.

 

[Ryan9316]

Have you tried a different ammonia test kit?

No, my corals are dying, and all other parameters are in range. Attached are pics. It's an API Ammonia kit, I've heard the can be wrong, but since the tank is obviously in distress I had no reason to question it. I've lost 6 Acro's that were growing well before, and my Walt Disney just died yesterday.

 

[brandon429]

easy fix, you have no free ammonia. fish swimming midwater, beats any test kit you are about to reconsider with.
that amount of live rock wouldnt permit free ammonia. your sandbed can use some cleaning.

Corals are not pulled back to white skeleton, although they may be mad. if you want to fix your tank, this is 20 pages of it. doing the big change exports any offenders, no matter what they may be. your tank is fixed.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

that is page after page of prediction about what a given tank will do, and then follow up. we dont seem to have a bad track record at looking at a pic and then predicting what a tank will do when its buzzsawed through that thread as a rip cleaning and 100% water change if you are concerned. this works on perfectly running tanks that have to move homes we show, or ones trying to beat an ailment

 

[W1ngz]

If this were an actual ammonia event, that clownfish wouldn't be looking very happy, the shrimp and anemone would almost certainly be dead. Something else is going on here.

Get some activated carbon into a good area of the filtration to start removing possible contaminants, and get set up to do a 50% water change.
You'll need a whole range of anything but API test kits for:

Salinity (digital, or a refractometer)
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Nitrate
phosphate

 

[Ryan9316]

easy fix, you have no free ammonia. fish swimming midwater, beats any test kit you are about to reconsider with.
that amount of live rock wouldnt permit free ammonia. your sandbed can use some cleaning.

Corals are not pulled back to white skeleton, although they may be mad. if you want to fix your tank, this is 20 pages of it. doing the big change exports any offenders, no matter what they may be. your tank is fixed.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

that is page after page of prediction about what a given tank will do, and then follow up.

My zoas, GSP are all retracted, and my Walt Disney just died last night, I just did a 50% water change. Brandon, I've been fighting this for two months, huge water changes, protein skimming, cleaning the top of the sand bed, changing the filtration media, I have chemipure blue, purigen, and GFO running. If ammonia is not the problem then what is?

 

[Ryan9316]

If this were an actual ammonia event, that clownfish wouldn't be looking very happy, the shrimp and anemone would almost certainly be dead. Something else is going on here.

Get some activated carbon into a good area of the filtration to start removing possible contaminants, and get set up to do a 50% water change.
You'll need a whole range of anything but API test kits for:

Salinity (digital, or a refractometer)
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Nitrate
phosphate

I've added a cap of prime every day to keep the Ammonia non toxic, then I do a 50% water change to remove the bound ammonia. I've been waiting TWO MONTHS for my bacteria to pick back up but they won't, I leave the tank alone for 3-4 days (no prime or water changes) and everything gets much worse.

 

[brandon429]

you have done the opposite of whats in our thread, and we expect partial sandbed work vs full work to be associated with your issues only because partial work leads to variation and full complete jobs lead to the after pics we have collected.

you could have a contaminant etc agreed, things we can't find or test for easily. but with our sandbed rinse then you have clean all layers, and pics of cross section will show, and you've exported all water that could have irritants.

 

[Softhammer]

Stop adding crap to your tank and leave it alone! Clean it but stop the chemicals if you don’t know what’s going on. Water changes only! That is a tiny tank to be blasting with additives.

 

[Ryan9316]

Stop adding crap to your tank and leave it alone! Clean it but stop the chemicals if you don’t know what’s going on. Water changes only! That is a tiny tank to be blasting with additives.

I 100% agree with you.

 

[Ryan9316]

you have done the opposite of whats in our thread, and we expect partial sandbed work vs full work to be associated with your issues only because partial work leads to variation and full complete jobs lead to the after pics we have collected.

you could have a contaminant etc agreed, things we can't find or test for easily. but with our sandbed rinse then you have clean all layers, and pics of cross section will show, and you've exported all water that could have irritants.

So you believe the sand bed is to blame? Ok, I'll work on it.

 

[Softhammer]

The skimmer was a good move but give it time. If you’re sweating the sand thing, vacuum it. But I wouldn’t. I’d do nothing. It will sort itself out. More people in this hobby have killed everything by playing God, than do the people who sit back and let biology do its thing.

 

[Ryan9316]

The skimmer was a good move but give it time. If you’re sweating the sand thing, vacuum it. But I wouldn’t. I’d do nothing. It will sort itself out. More people in this hobby have killed everything by playing God, than do the people who sit back and let biology do its thing.

I'm telling you, if I do nothing in a week everything in the tank will be dead. I've done a 90% water change, Ammonia reads as almost 0, then 2-3 days later (with no additives) it's through the roof again.

 

[MnFish1]

My zoas, GSP are all retracted, and my Walt Disney just died last night, I just did a 50% water change. Brandon, I've been fighting this for two months, huge water changes, protein skimming, cleaning the top of the sand bed, changing the filtration media, I have chemipure blue, purigen, and GFO running. If ammonia is not the problem then what is?

The test kit you're using is not accurate with Prime - I agree with the rest - if fish and other inverts are doing 'ok' - there is likely something else going on. For example - when one coral dies - it often releases toxins that affect others - starting a kind of vicious cycle - having nothing to do with ammonia. Its impossible (Im sure you realize) - that its impossible to try to figure out whats going on in your tank - after all of the stuff you mentioned above. - BUT

You cant interpret your ammonia tests, Though your nitrate is 'ok' what is your phosphate - could you have effectively dosed 'carbon' with your overdose resulting in fluctuating 'parameters' i.e. low PO4, etc - that have caused problems

 

[Ryan9316]

The test kit you're using is not accurate with Prime - I agree with the rest - if fish and other inverts are doing 'ok' - there is likely something else going on. For example - when one coral dies - it often releases toxins that affect others - starting a kind of vicious cycle - having nothing to do with ammonia. Its impossible (Im sure you realize) - that its impossible to try to figure out whats going on in your tank - after all of the stuff you mentioned above. - BUT

You cant interpret your ammonia tests, Though your nitrate is 'ok' what is your phosphate - could you have effectively dosed 'carbon' with your overdose resulting in fluctuating 'parameters' i.e. low PO4, etc - that have caused problems

API test kit for phosphate, I realize it's probably trash. But it's reading about .25, could ultra low phosphate cause this? Should I remove the GFO?

 

[Ryan9316]

Get a seachem ammonia badge, or maybe a Seneye monitor. Both measure free ammonia NH3 (the toxic kind), where most test kits measure total ammonia (NH3 + NH4). Prime and most other methods of ammonia detox convert NH3 to NH4, which messes up the liquid tests.

Like Brandon said, tanks don't just 'uncycle' themselves unless you dose an antibacterial, or decide to rinse off the rock and sand with chlorinated tap water, which kills the bacteria.

Badge will be here tomorrow.