Ok here is the plan, I'm going to add a fresh bag of purigen, I'm going to do a 95% water change. I'm going to remove the rowaphos. I'll put the Seachem badge in the tank, and then we can watch as the ammonia rises in a fully cycled clean aquarium with no feeding or dead creatures.
Tank Un-cycled Help please
- Thread starter Ryan9316
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W1ngz
Failed Padawan
I'd recommend granulated carbon over purigen. Purigen removes nitrogen compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate).
Since nitrogen behaviour is what you seem to want a close look at, filtering it will mess up obervations of what the tank is doing on it's own.
Since nitrogen behaviour is what you seem to want a close look at, filtering it will mess up obervations of what the tank is doing on it's own.
I didnt see there was po4 media in play, well done catch team. Yes on the regenerating system we power clean it (any partial work is a recycle risk, but tap level work is no recycle risk, irony, in thread) and then we run nothing beyond rocks water and sand, no dosing for items thats all algae control and to have corals retracting in the presence of po4 stripping isn't rare.
you'd feed the algae targeted for the next two mos, adding mass, and doing more weekly water changes vs media filtration to reduce work. replace the cruise control w feeding and export and those corals will mass back up for sure.
the sandbed part is likely not a culprit knowing details so far, but its still exporting vs retaining action, whats in the bed eventually fuels a cyano challenge after you beat this one
it levels the field in terms of irritants, we run it on perfectly working tanks as prevention or when they move homes and they continue on fine, so its simply a resetter action. whether or not it fixes it varies, but the process itself is factually not harmful as long as no cloud is set up in the new tank. if we can reach in a swish rocks and get a cloud, then thats a cloud included.
if the new sandbed can be reached and grabbed and not cloud, then its eliminated as a factor
*agreed on carbon call above thats always good as backup.
you'd feed the algae targeted for the next two mos, adding mass, and doing more weekly water changes vs media filtration to reduce work. replace the cruise control w feeding and export and those corals will mass back up for sure.
the sandbed part is likely not a culprit knowing details so far, but its still exporting vs retaining action, whats in the bed eventually fuels a cyano challenge after you beat this one
it levels the field in terms of irritants, we run it on perfectly working tanks as prevention or when they move homes and they continue on fine, so its simply a resetter action. whether or not it fixes it varies, but the process itself is factually not harmful as long as no cloud is set up in the new tank. if we can reach in a swish rocks and get a cloud, then thats a cloud included.
if the new sandbed can be reached and grabbed and not cloud, then its eliminated as a factor
*agreed on carbon call above thats always good as backup.
W1ngz
Failed Padawan
Chemipure also reduces organics (nitrogen compounds and phosphate). Since one possibility is that your corals are starving to death, it's not what I would use.
W1ngz
Failed Padawan
For my Evo I just buy the Aquaclear 20 carbon pouches. No mess, no fuss.
Ok I didn't mention this, but before this **** storm, I was target feeding reef roids once weekly as well as adding Acropower once weekly, would the corals still starve with this?
Before all of this I had a routine I never changed weekly 50% water changes, reef roids 1x week, acro power 1x week, I had an ATO adding kalk. I discontinued all of this when I first noticed the ammonia rising after that bacterial bloom.
the #1 thing I must recommend is study the works on file to see if any small details are missed. its such a large work that patterns of before and after stand out. Its to see the job being done in different tanks and the unifying themes that make them all not die. to read and prep is my strongest recommend, so you dont customize the wrong actions. its tank surgery
W1ngz
Failed Padawan
Depends on the nitrate and phosphate levels over time. Starvation isn't a likely cause, but with so many things going on all at once, it's not something that can be ruled out either.
Yes, I made multiple amateur errors. I made way too many huge changes at once and that made sure I had no idea what the culprit was. Here is a complete list of changes in order.
1. Removed well established refugium from the back.
2. Added Icecap protein skimmer in it's place.
3. Changed from 2-part to 1 part.
4. Removed half or more of the sand bed.
5. After finding positive ammonia, started feeding every other day, increased water changes, cleaned the tank more often. Also discontinued Acro power and reef roids as a potential ammonia source.
6. Ammonia wouldn't drop, so I added bacteria.
7. Ammonia getting higher, started adding prime
I should of removed the refugium and just watched the tank for a month.
1. Removed well established refugium from the back.
2. Added Icecap protein skimmer in it's place.
3. Changed from 2-part to 1 part.
4. Removed half or more of the sand bed.
5. After finding positive ammonia, started feeding every other day, increased water changes, cleaned the tank more often. Also discontinued Acro power and reef roids as a potential ammonia source.
6. Ammonia wouldn't drop, so I added bacteria.
7. Ammonia getting higher, started adding prime
I should of removed the refugium and just watched the tank for a month.
Stability is your main problem right now. Way too many changes, especially for such a small tank. Now need to just stop. As difficult as that may be. It may get worse before it gets better.
FWIW I would not base the overall health of the tank on the health of the acros. It's too young of a tank and too small. I would not have introduced acros until after a year. And that would need to be a fairly trouble free year of good LPS growth. Patience....
The only thing that happens quickly in a reef is failure.
at no time likely did the ammonia spike for real though, important takeaway. likely a series of mistesting, or, only the sandbed half work caused it (meaning whats in the bed is danger, it does need to come out)
in order to trace that claim out that you never had real free ammonia, since your fish and animals are still alive and it kills them, did you find a dead fish in the tank?
an ammonia spike that is real has ways to be measured without any test kits, its that predictable. so far, nothing listed qualifies for free ammonia in order to trigger that series of events other than sandbed possibly.
in order to trace that claim out that you never had real free ammonia, since your fish and animals are still alive and it kills them, did you find a dead fish in the tank?
an ammonia spike that is real has ways to be measured without any test kits, its that predictable. so far, nothing listed qualifies for free ammonia in order to trigger that series of events other than sandbed possibly.
W1ngz
Failed Padawan
To try and summarize all that's going on, here's what I'd do. The idea is to push things towards a clean slate, and stop having so many variables letting you take control of things.
-Throw away anything that says API on it, except maybe the test tubes. They come in handy sometimes. Consider Salifert, red sea. Hanna for alk and phosphate ULR. ICP will be a big help also. Trust the badge for ammonia.
-A good sand rinse would be a good precaution. It's a young tank, so not likely to be the source of too many problems.
-Stop adding 'stuff'. Various ammonia detoxifyers and bacteria additives can destabilize things because many contain sources of organic carbon, which can help some bacteria outcompete others. Let things come back to a natural normal balance.
-A big water change as you're putting the sand back in. Try as close as you can to match the salinity, alk, cal and mag levels to what they are before the water change to force a starting point of what you consider 'stable'.
-stop the broad chemical filtration (rowaphos, chemipure etc). Plain old granulated carbon will clean out what's left of any toxins and leave everything else alone.
-Throw away anything that says API on it, except maybe the test tubes. They come in handy sometimes. Consider Salifert, red sea. Hanna for alk and phosphate ULR. ICP will be a big help also. Trust the badge for ammonia.
-A good sand rinse would be a good precaution. It's a young tank, so not likely to be the source of too many problems.
-Stop adding 'stuff'. Various ammonia detoxifyers and bacteria additives can destabilize things because many contain sources of organic carbon, which can help some bacteria outcompete others. Let things come back to a natural normal balance.
-A big water change as you're putting the sand back in. Try as close as you can to match the salinity, alk, cal and mag levels to what they are before the water change to force a starting point of what you consider 'stable'.
-stop the broad chemical filtration (rowaphos, chemipure etc). Plain old granulated carbon will clean out what's left of any toxins and leave everything else alone.
W1ngz
Failed Padawan
The last thing I'd do after all that, is sit back and wait. Feed lightly, do some testing to feed your own desire of 'doing something' and to keep tabs on the alk and calcium levels. You probably won't need to dose alk or calcium since at this point most growth has likely stopped.
The reality is, you may still have another loss or two from the various destabilizing interventions. You probably won't see dramatic improvements for at least 2 weeks, except in the GSP, which will hopefully start to peek out some polyps before anything else does.
The reality is, you may still have another loss or two from the various destabilizing interventions. You probably won't see dramatic improvements for at least 2 weeks, except in the GSP, which will hopefully start to peek out some polyps before anything else does.
