Tech-M's Magic Bryopsis killing ingredient: Lithium

mcarroll · Oct 14, 2016

@bblumberg, that wasn't the right reference before, but LiCl does seem to have a potential play here after all:
https://echa.europa.eu/registration-dossier/-/registered-dossier/5223/6/2/6

Lithium chloride's effect on algae is not untold.

Not sure it's been tested against Bryopsis specifically, but hey it's something!

aquaterra · Oct 14, 2016

So the consensus is to use Continuum Magnesium dosing to kill bryopsis and not Tech M at this time?

revhtree · Oct 14, 2016

JimWelsh said:
Good news is that not only have I not killed it, but it appears to be quite happy and growing! Now, I just need to get a couple of other small rocks populated with it, so I can do an experiment using a couple of different Li levels, while also maintaining a control. Stay tuned.....

Awesome! I don't know why I was just thinking you were going to dose the sent sample one time and be done!

stevo01 · Oct 14, 2016

aquaterra said:
So the consensus is to use Continuum Magnesium dosing to kill bryopsis and not Tech M at this time?

Im in mid test with Continuum right now. Im not convinced of anything at this time. The Bryopsis has only grown and spread.

I wanted to bring something up as many people seem to believe the same thing here, and am going to have to disagree. Im talking about the clear/white tips thats is seen on the bryopsis. I dont think this is a sign of the algae dying, I think its just the opposite. I believe this is new growth. Now if your seeing the Bryopsis becoming translucent from tip to base then maybe that is evidence of the Bry dying. In my situation that is not the case. Ill also say that if the feathery pieces are missing it also doesnt mean the algae is dying. I believe this is a form of reproduction. Like dandelion seeds blowing in the wind. I could be wrong but i am not seeing this algea die in any way. I'll follow up as I get more data to share. The bottle of Vivid will be here soon. Once it is I will begin that test, and we still have Jim working on his end with LiCl concentrate and my sample.

jason2459 · Oct 14, 2016

Fwiw, the tech-m in high amounts over a decent amount of time didn't work for everyone. It didn't for me when I had bryopsis back in 2009. A magnificent foxface did though

Salty1962 · Oct 14, 2016

JimWelsh said:
Good news is that not only have I not killed it, but it appears to be quite happy and growing! Now, I just need to get a couple of other small rocks populated with it, so I can do an experiment using a couple of different Li levels, while also maintaining a control. Stay tuned.....

That's a bummer, I was hopeful it would do the trick. Maybe higher levels will make a difference.. Here's to hoping..

JimWelsh · Oct 14, 2016

Salty1962 said:
That's a bummer, I was hopeful it would do the trick. Maybe higher levels will make a difference.. Here's to hoping..

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear -- I haven't yet tried to experiment with lithium levels to get the Bryopsis to die. I was referring to my earlier comment that I tend to kill the first culture of almost everything I get! The Bryopsis is still alive, despite my husbandry efforts! Once I get it to spread to a couple of different small rocks, then the actual experiment can begin.

Salty1962 · Oct 14, 2016

JimWelsh said:
I'm sorry I wasn't more clear -- I haven't yet tried to experiment with lithium levels to get the Bryopsis to die. I was referring to my earlier comment that I tend to kill the first culture of almost everything I get! The Bryopsis is still alive, despite my husbandry efforts! Once I get it to spread to a couple of different small rocks, then the actual experiment can begin.

Gottcha

stevo01 · Oct 14, 2016

JimWelsh said:
I'm sorry I wasn't more clear -- I haven't yet tried to experiment with lithium levels to get the Bryopsis to die. I was referring to my earlier comment that I tend to kill the first culture of almost everything I get! The Bryopsis is still alive, despite my husbandry efforts! Once I get it to spread to a couple of different small rocks, then the actual experiment can begin.

Just curious. Did it die back at all from shipping and being in a new environment?

Reefinny · Oct 14, 2016

jason2459 said:
Fwiw, the tech-m in high amounts over a decent amount of time didn't work for everyone. It didn't for me when I had bryopsis back in 2009. A magnificent foxface did though

I agree with the comment that did not work for me either I just stopped treatment and did multiple water changes as what it did do was melt a few Rasta colonies

bblumberg · Oct 14, 2016

mcarroll said:
@bblumberg, that wasn't the right reference before, but LiCl does seem to have a potential play here after all:
https://echa.europa.eu/registration-dossier/-/registered-dossier/5223/6/2/6

Lithium chloride's effect on algae is not untold.

Not sure it's been tested against Bryopsis specifically, but hey it's something!

Good find. Apparently, in the experiments done, 400 PPM of LiCl inhibited the algae growth by ~35%. People are reporting concentrations as high as 2000 PPM after using TechM so maybe this is the magic ingredient after all. Unfortunately, all of the information in the article regarding effects on fish and invertebrates tested fresh water organisms (trout and Daphnia) so I wonder how much LiCl it will take to harm our reef tank organisms. Sounds like an interesting experiment for someone with time and materials....

Bruce

JimWelsh · Oct 14, 2016

stevo01 said:
Just curious. Did it die back at all from shipping and being in a new environment?

It bounced back pretty quickly, although a lot of it came loose.

stevo01 · Oct 14, 2016

That was actually a lot from me when i removed the galaxea frag off that rock. About half was attached.

stevo01 · Oct 14, 2016

This stuff is BEAST

JimWelsh · Oct 20, 2016

Just a quick update: I'm continuing to get other small rocks seeded with it, and once those are grown out nicely, the experiment will begin. Not sure exactly how long that will take, but I expect it will be just a few weeks.

stevo01 · Oct 20, 2016

JimWelsh said:
Just a quick update: I'm continuing to get other small rocks seeded with it, and once those are grown out nicely, the experiment will begin. Not sure exactly how long that will take, but I expect it will be just a few weeks.

Sounds great Jim!

joefishUC · Oct 21, 2016

bblumberg said:
Good find. Apparently, in the experiments done, 400 PPM of LiCl inhibited the algae growth by ~35%. People are reporting concentrations as high as 2000 PPM after using TechM so maybe this is the magic ingredient after all. Unfortunately, all of the information in the article regarding effects on fish and invertebrates tested fresh water organisms (trout and Daphnia) so I wonder how much LiCl it will take to harm our reef tank organisms. Sounds like an interesting experiment for someone with time and materials....

Bruce

I didn't read the entire thread but are people reporting 2000 ppm Li or 2000 ppb Li?

Rick.45cal · Oct 23, 2016

bblumberg said:
Good find. Apparently, in the experiments done, 400 PPM of LiCl inhibited the algae growth by ~35%. People are reporting concentrations as high as 2000 PPM after using TechM so maybe this is the magic ingredient after all. Unfortunately, all of the information in the article regarding effects on fish and invertebrates tested fresh water organisms (trout and Daphnia) so I wonder how much LiCl it will take to harm our reef tank organisms. Sounds like an interesting experiment for someone with time and materials....

Bruce

The triton results I have seen that people have posted were Li levels in micrograms per liter, or ppb

Rick.45cal · Oct 23, 2016

I raised my Mg from 1350 ppm to 1609 ppm with Kent tech M. The stuff I have basically just transformed, and keeps right on. Nasty stuff. Please keep us updated @stevo01 on how the continuum works (or doesn't). I ordered a gallon I'll beef up my waterchange water with it and just change water for an extended period with it.

Anyone know of a salt mix that is notoriously low in Mg? One that I can maximize the amount of continuum Mg in? (Pretty please)

I may be sourcing a magnificent fox face, if I can also figure out a strategy to introduce him successfully (long term) in a 200 gallon with a large, very angry, very territorial Purple tang and an Ebili mimic that holds his own to the purple tang (He's no slouch either). If long term co-habitation isn't possible then that is a lost cause for me as well.

stevo01 · Oct 23, 2016

Rick.45cal said:
I raised my Mg from 1350 ppm to 1609 ppm with Kent tech M. The stuff I have basically just transformed, and keeps right on. Nasty stuff. Please keep us updated @stevo01 on how the continuum works (or doesn't). I ordered a gallon I'll beef up my waterchange water with it and just change water for an extended period with it.

Anyone know of a salt mix that is notoriously low in Mg? One that I can maximize the amount of continuum Mg in? (Pretty please)

I may be sourcing a magnificent fox face, if I can also figure out a strategy to introduce him successfully (long term) in a 200 gallon with a large, very angry, very territorial Purple tang and an Ebili mimic that holds his own to the purple tang (He's no slouch either). If long term co-habitation isn't possible then that is a lost cause for me as well.

Will do and good luck to you with the tangs!