The All-Pharmaceutical Tank (Satire. Please don't do this.)

[Dan_P]

When you get enough green to sample, I'd love to meet those hardy slight green blush nuisances under a microscope.

The sand still looks like it is airbrushed with green paint. I suspect a film of single cell algae. Two days ago I placed microscope slides in the aquaria to get a sense of what is actively growing.

I looked at the microscope slides today. The first photo below is from the control aquarium. Lots of growth already, but mostly little cells. Diatoms in the photo for scale. The treatment slides are way behind in density of these cells, maybe 1/100 as many little cells. The second slide is a photo of the treatment slide at higher magnification. Yep, tiny algae cells. I am guessing this is coloring the sand. I will check the slides again when succession is a bit more advanced and will try to examine the sand grains.

 

[jda]

Back to being cheeky... since coralline takes so long and is so hard to grow, just take your rocks out and use this. It does have 5x stronger adhesion.

 

[taricha]

The treatment slides are way behind in density of these cells, maybe 1/100 as many little cells. The second slide is a photo of the treatment slide at higher magnification. Yep, tiny algae cells. I am guessing this is coloring the sand. I will check the slides again when succession is a bit more advanced and will try to examine the sand grains.

Nice. So similar organisms as in the untreated tank but much lower in number.

Not that I like our odds of ID'ing this cell, but in the pic, I think I see an orange spot visible on most of the cells. Additionally, some of the cells look round, with others elongated and blobby. If you catch them changing shape under the microscope we might be looking at a euglenoid, they have a somewhat distinctive orange eyespot.
video of euglena population mostly round with a few moving into elongated blobs.

 

[Miami Reef]

Back to being cheeky... since coralline takes so long and is so hard to grow, just take your rocks out and use this. It does have 5x stronger adhesion.

Can we also spray it on the back wall of the inside of the tank? We can role play scraping the back “coralline!“

 

[Dan_P]

Nice. So similar organisms as in the untreated tank but much lower in number.

Not that I like our odds of ID'ing this cell, but in the pic, I think I see an orange spot visible on most of the cells. Additionally, some of the cells look round, with others elongated and blobby. If you catch them changing shape under the microscope we might be looking at a euglenoid, they have a somewhat distinctive orange eyespot.
video of euglena population mostly round with a few moving into elongated blobs.

Hey, that is thought. Mine appeared to be rock solid on the glass. Everything else was swimming above. Also, I noticed the shape difference and wrote it it off as multiple species. I am upgrading my microscope camera soon and will try to capture more and better pics.

 

[7of9]

My tank uses zero chemicals AND is 100 percent free of nuisance algae!

(I’m slowly assembling all my equipment. Until then, it’s running the ultimate sterile environment!)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My tank uses zero chemicals AND is 100 percent free of nuisance algae!

(I’m slowly assembling all my equipment. Until then, it’s running the ultimate sterile environment!)

LOL

 

[Dan_P]

Week 2 Update

Almost two weeks into the experiment and the control is growing algae and the pharmaceutically treated aquarium (@taricha ”No Ug” formulation) is showing the slightest green blush. Nice obvious distinction. The control is running nutrient depleted, no PO4 or any inorganic-N detected 7 days after the weekly media change and daily feeding of fish flakes. The treated aquarium is accumulating tenths of ppm nitrite but no PO4. Heterotrophic bacteria activity is substantially higher in the control than the treatment. I have no idea whether this is a bactericide effect of the pharmaceuticals or from the presumably reduced DOC in the media from the lack of algae growth. Back in two weeks

Week 4 Update

@taricha “No Ug” treatment continues to distinguish itself from the control, showing much less algae accumulation even after four weeks (See photo’s below comparing control (left) v No Ug (right) at 2 and 4 weeks of growth, top and bottom rows, respectively).

The development of the golden color in the control is likely a sign that the autotrophic biomass has reached the carrying capacity of the system. The nutrient input is just enough to maintain the biomass that accumulated some time ago and now the organisms are struggling. I think the golden yellow appearance is from the cyanobacteria that have accumulated on the algae filaments.

Below is a closer look at the aquaria. The left image is taken through the front side and the other image is the top view. The white lines are there to connect landmarks in both photos. I examined individual algae colonies in the No Ug treatment and did not find any cyanobacteria. I wonder if ChemiClean alone is responsible for this lack of cyanobacteria. Pink algae colonies are hemispherical filamentous algae. The green colored sand persists and consists of very small, short filamentous algae (I assume) that completely coats each sand grain, radiating from the surface.

The slimy appearance of the growth in the control is from the extensive cyanobacteria growth. I assume much of the algae biomass in the control is going to become the biomass of other organisms soon.

The next two photos, control and treatment, respectively, show the surface growth on microscope slides placed in the aquaria two weeks ago. The slide culture represents the organisms that settled and dominated the slide some time ago. This does not necessarily represent the same organisms dominating the ecosystem tiday. New slides were placed in the aquaria today for an updated census.

The control slide shows robust growth with a thick algae biofilm coating the glass (the covering of dots) overlayed with diatoms, cyanobacteria and other organisms. The No Ug treatment slide shows very sparse growth.

Back in two weeks with the next installment.

 

[taricha]

Pink algae colonies are hemispherical filamentous algae.

I'm loving those pink fluffy algae tufts!

 

[Dan_P]

I'm loving those pink fluffy algae tufts!

At first I thought it was coralline growth.

 

[Dan_P]

Week 4 Update

@taricha “No Ug” treatment continues to distinguish itself from the control, showing much less algae accumulation even after four weeks (See photo’s below comparing control (left) v No Ug (right) at 2 and 4 weeks of growth, top and bottom rows, respectively).

The development of the golden color in the control is likely a sign that the autotrophic biomass has reached the carrying capacity of the system. The nutrient input is just enough to maintain the biomass that accumulated some time ago and now the organisms are struggling. I think the golden yellow appearance is from the cyanobacteria that have accumulated on the algae filaments.

Below is a closer look at the aquaria. The left image is taken through the front side and the other image is the top view. The white lines are there to connect landmarks in both photos. I examined individual algae colonies in the No Ug treatment and did not find any cyanobacteria. I wonder if ChemiClean alone is responsible for this lack of cyanobacteria. Pink algae colonies are hemispherical filamentous algae. The green colored sand persists and consists of very small, short filamentous algae (I assume) that completely coats each sand grain, radiating from the surface.

The slimy appearance of the growth in the control is from the extensive cyanobacteria growth. I assume much of the algae biomass in the control is going to become the biomass of other organisms soon.

The next two photos, control and treatment, respectively, show the surface growth on microscope slides placed in the aquaria two weeks ago. The slide culture represents the organisms that settled and dominated the slide some time ago. This does not necessarily represent the same organisms dominating the ecosystem tiday. New slides were placed in the aquaria today for an updated census.

The control slide shows robust growth with a thick algae biofilm coating the glass (the covering of dots) overlayed with diatoms, cyanobacteria and other organisms. The No Ug treatment slide shows very sparse growth.

Back in two weeks with the next installment.

Week 6 Update

Observing the effects of @taricha “NoUg” super algae eliminator (joke) is starting to feel like watching paint dry. Growth of algae in the control and treatment containers (both replicated) seems to be slowing, possibly indicating that the algae biomass is reaching the carrying capacity of these little ecosystems. Variation within replicates is large, which makes drawing any conclusion about effects tough. Here is this period’s observations.

Visually, the big difference is color. The control aquaria are covered in golden growth. Algae biomass, all the stuff on the sides and on the sand, appears to be somewhat larger than in the control. Microscope slide cultures are frustratingly similar with the exception of no apparent cyanobacteria growth on the treatment slides. Slide cultures all have a greater diversity of microorganisms then before.

The growth on the aquarium walls was examined this period. The biofilm on the control wall was thick and resilient like skin whereas the treatment biofilm was thin and fragile that easily broke into pieces. Both showed a complex ecosystem but only the control biofilms contained cyanobacteria. The control biofilms could be described as cyanobacteria biofilms with other organisms living in or on it. The cyanobacteria were the likely reason for the strength and golden color of the biofilm.

The biofilms samples shown below were thick and prevented focus on all organisms at once. The control biofilm on the left is a mat of fine filament cyanobacteria studded with dinoflagellates and interwoven algae filaments. The treatment biofilm on the right consisted of algae fibers ( ) and a matrix of single cell organisms and probably extracellular polymer. Dinoflagellates studded this biofilm but cyanobacteria were not observed.

A provisional conclusion to be tested is that the pharmaceutical cocktail has minimal effect on algae growth but stops cyanobacteria. I still need to figure out a way to characterize bacteria growth, possibly by the next report.

 

[Miami Reef]

Do you think the treatment tank would have different results if the medications were continuously applied, rather than just once in the beginning?

 

[taricha]

A provisional conclusion to be tested is that the pharmaceutical cocktail has minimal effect on algae growth but stops cyanobacteria.

How would you describe diatom prevalence in the two tanks? I feel like the diatoms and cyano are the two easiest targets to go after with chemical killers.

 

[Dan_P]

Do you think the treatment tank would have different results if the medications were continuously applied, rather than just once in the beginning?

My bad for not being clear on this point. The pharmaceuticals are dosed once per week when I perform the 100% weekly water change on each aquarium. The treatment period will run 10 weeks.

While the results are boring, they are maybe indicative of how mild the effect is on algae in general. These results get me thinking about how not effective these chemicals are. A controversial “wondering” I know but could be fun to probe further one pharmaceutical at a time.

 

[sesbalders]

(Satire. Don't do this.)

Are you tired of tolerating the "ugly phase", and waves of algae making your rocks look brown, green, and red - instead of the bleached white that nature intended? Are you sick of people telling you to wait it out, or worse - do manual removal with your own hands?
Well, no more! Put algae in the past through the miracle of modern medicine. Embrace the future and kiss algae of all forms goodbye. Don't tolerate even a single cell of algae anywhere in your system. (etc, etc...you get the point)

• Start the tank with Algaefix - highly effective against diatoms, the first algae forms to show up in a new system. (personal observation - algaefix etc in a new tank, the early diatoms never actually appear. The tank stays white until cyano appears.)
• As soon as the first blush of red from cyano appears, hit the system with Chemiclean or Red Cyano RX (both highly effective against cyano - believed to be different antibiotics, feel free to switch from one to the other if a cyano doesn't respond to one of those. Or mix them - this is the all-pharmaceutical tank!)
  Preventing the first two ubiquitous algae in systems, diatoms and cyano, the system should stay clear until the filamentous algae shows up.
• Once GHA appears, use a combo of fluconazole and Algaefix. Each of these is moderately effective against GHA, together they are quite effective (anecdotally) Both persist in the water for a long time - excellent.
• When / if dinoflagellates appear you can switch from Algaefix to the more aggessive Dino-X and add Metronidazole. Metro is known to decimate dino populations but a few cells sometimes form cysts to wait it out. These meds are especially effective against dino types in the water. You may need to remove all your sand to ensure the dino cells get hit by the meds.

And there you have it. No forms of common algae in the saltwater hobby would be able to grow against this Pharmaceutical Toolbox. I have no idea what would actually grow - but if you eliminate all the common ones, you can guarantee it would be something weird! Can you grow corals in a system like this? Maybe. Each individual med and many of those in combination have been done tankwide in coral systems and the corals often do OK. But really, who cares? The important part is you eliminated all your algae - with science!


(Satire. Please don't do this.)

I’ve had great success with a pint of bleach and a cup of clog clear, the fish all get very skinny and sink to the bottom of the tank. It’s good because it slows them right down and makes them much easier to net.

 

[Miami Reef]

My bad for not being clear on this point. The pharmaceuticals are dosed once per week when I perform the 100% weekly water change on each aquarium. The treatment period will run 10 weeks.

While the results are boring, they are maybe indicative of how mild the effect is on algae in general. These results get me thinking about how not effective these chemicals are. A controversial “wondering” I know but could be fun to probe further one pharmaceutical at a time.

Oh wow! I was under the impression that you only dosed it once in the beginning. I did not expect these results at all!

 

[Dan_P]

I’ve had great success with a pint of bleach and a cup of clog clear, the fish all get very skinny and sink to the bottom of the tank. It’s good because it slows them right down and makes them much easier to net.

MMM, this could be “Nightmare Before Christmas II. Jack and Sally Set Up A Reef Tank”

 

[I never finish anythi]

(Satire. Don't do this.)

Are you tired of tolerating the "ugly phase", and waves of algae making your rocks look brown, green, and red - instead of the bleached white that nature intended? Are you sick of people telling you to wait it out, or worse - do manual removal with your own hands?
Well, no more! Put algae in the past through the miracle of modern medicine. Embrace the future and kiss algae of all forms goodbye. Don't tolerate even a single cell of algae anywhere in your system. (etc, etc...you get the point)

• Start the tank with Algaefix - highly effective against diatoms, the first algae forms to show up in a new system. (personal observation - algaefix etc in a new tank, the early diatoms never actually appear. The tank stays white until cyano appears.)
• As soon as the first blush of red from cyano appears, hit the system with Chemiclean or Red Cyano RX (both highly effective against cyano - believed to be different antibiotics, feel free to switch from one to the other if a cyano doesn't respond to one of those. Or mix them - this is the all-pharmaceutical tank!)
  Preventing the first two ubiquitous algae in systems, diatoms and cyano, the system should stay clear until the filamentous algae shows up.
• Once GHA appears, use a combo of fluconazole and Algaefix. Each of these is moderately effective against GHA, together they are quite effective (anecdotally) Both persist in the water for a long time - excellent.
• When / if dinoflagellates appear you can switch from Algaefix to the more aggessive Dino-X and add Metronidazole. Metro is known to decimate dino populations but a few cells sometimes form cysts to wait it out. These meds are especially effective against dino types in the water. You may need to remove all your sand to ensure the dino cells get hit by the meds.

And there you have it. No forms of common algae in the saltwater hobby would be able to grow against this Pharmaceutical Toolbox. I have no idea what would actually grow - but if you eliminate all the common ones, you can guarantee it would be something weird! Can you grow corals in a system like this? Maybe. Each individual med and many of those in combination have been done tankwide in coral systems and the corals often do OK. But really, who cares? The important part is you eliminated all your algae - with science!


(Satire. Please don't do this.)

Bravo.

 

[sesbalders]

MMM, this could be “Nightmare Before Christmas II. Jack and Sally Set Up A Reef Tank”

How did you know?

 

[Dan_P]

Oh wow! I was under the impression that you only dosed it once in the beginning. I did not expect these results at all!

Yeah, me too. I was looking forwards to a nice clear result. Even the darned replicates aren’t behaving exactly the same way. Could be tough to unravel this mystery.