The Mindstream is DEAD!! I'm getting mine soon!

[reef_ranch]

I said it was unclear based on what material is available. It is also unclear if we will be able access the data on the instrument directly in real time which is what I desire although in all honesty this device is probably not in my budget in the short term.

I'll take the wait and see approach with this and other unknowns.

Regarding data logging export, from what I've read recently, Apex Fusion/Triton does not allow it and neither does the GHL solution. Seems to be a cloud based server issue?

 

[rushbattle]

I said it was unclear based on what material is available. It is also unclear if we will be able access the data on the instrument directly in real time which is what I desire although in all honesty this device is probably not in my budget in the short term.

Well I also am curious if they will make the data available in a standard usable format. But I’m sure not directly without some server interaction. The special sauce resides server side for them I’m sure.

 

[ChrisNH]

I'll take the wait and see approach with this and other unknowns.

Regarding data logging export, from what I've read recently, Apex Fusion/Triton does not allow it and neither does the GHL solution. Seems to be a cloud based server issue?

Cynically I would suggest that it is a decision to create closed ecosystems but that is a business decision they get to make and is influenced by this hobby having a very wide range of cost sensitivity. This product is not directly associated with aquarium controller hardware so I am holding out hope they will view it differently.

The other possibility is that they create an API to access data in real time through the website in conjunction with a subscription without a manual download. While not ideal it would be a step in the right direction. Then, for instance, a user could set up a service to ping the data every few hours, log it, and send a corresponding action to their dosing device or their own controller (like reef pi).

I consider it a win, regardless, that there is another device on the market like this regardless of whether it fills my specific desires.

 

[K7BMG]

Triton results can be downloaded and saved in PDF.
I have not tried this with my Apex.

I understand the desire for saving the data, but not not so sure on the need.
What happend to a tank a year ago in my opinion is irrelevant to whats going on today. To many things will have changed making the past information irrelevant. Adding or removing livestock, rock, changing additives, lighting, and other changes to the tank environment not only in the tank but in the location it is.
I gather if you are having a second outbreak of something it would be nice to go back and review the history but even then, the cause will wind up being something different I feel.
But I am a new reefer so I have very little history to review to date.

 

[ChrisNH]

Triton results can be downloaded and saved in PDF.
I have not tried this with my Apex..

Do they offer CSV? PDF is not terribly friendly for use in analysis. It seems like a csv with a column for each parameter and a time time stamp would be pretty low hanging fruit.

As a grad student (despite being an older guy) I have been working with data from agricultural systems and invasive species to help my advisor build state based models. The idea of applying that same process to building state based models for reef chemistry changes is my particular interest in saving historical data beyond just my interest in working on (and finding instrumentation for) my reef-pi.

 

[rushbattle]

Do they offer CSV? PDF is not terribly friendly for use in analysis. It seems like a csv with a column for each parameter and a time time stamp would be pretty low hanging fruit.

As a grad student (despite being an older guy) I have been working with data from agricultural systems and invasive species to help my advisor build state based models. The idea of applying that same process to building state based models for reef chemistry changes is my particular interest in saving historical data beyond just my interest in working on (and finding instrumentation for) my reef-pi.

These kinds of ideas are fun to explore and IMO SAI should be facilitating and encouraging them. All sorts of interesting datasets that could be created with the MM.

 

[K7BMG]

So I logged into Triton's site.
I do not see the availability of CSV, just the ability of a PDF download.
However there is a share icon, but I think that's to allow the Triton staff, to be able or have the right to view your data.
That could include the Triton members as well but I would need to look into that.

 

[K7BMG]

Well the share will allow the member to post the results on FB.
So I did the share, then went to my FB page.
At the bottom of the results on my FB page is a download icon and that leads to a CSV file but when I clicked it I was notified that it was unavailable to download.

This could be its the first one and is now two months plus old?
I will email Triton and see if I can find out anything.

 

[BDegen]

We’re thrilled to see this lively discussion of the MindStream Monitor and we appreciate all these comments that can help us consider future improvements to the MindStream Monitor and our service.

We saw that there were some questions about the discs and the subscription model: the monthly subscription pays for real-time access to your monitor data, helpful graphs and tools, proactive alerts when your values are out of range, a monthly replacement sensor disc, access to knowledgeable customer support, and for the cloud computing service that takes raw readings from the monitor and turns them into a continuous feed of information for each measure. Using our web app, you can see your readings at any time from a computer or mobile device. Discs need to be replaced each month not because of algae growth, but to ensure that the highest quality readings are acquired by the monitor with no user calibration required. We have adopted the subscription model because our extensive market research has indicated the majority of our prospective customers prefer the convenience of a monthly or annual subscription along with automatic disc shipments.

The MindStream Monitor measures 10 parameters in your tank water every 15 minutes for a total of more than 28,000 measurements per month. With our revolutionary near-continuous monitoring technology, you will be able to see never-before-seen insights of your water chemistry. This results in a cost per measurement of approximately 1/8 cent which is considerably lower than other alternatives. You can learn more at www.MindStreamH2O.com.

Customer support is available by phone, e-mail, and soon chat as well. Our support representatives include very experienced aquarists and chemists. They work here at our Burlington, Vermont headquarters and are in daily contact with our manufacturing, R&D, and engineering staff.

It is still early in our product launch and we will be opening our web store to the public next week. Once we get our legs under us, we’ll keep an eye on this discussion, and we’ll also be active at our MindStream Reef2Reef forum (https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/mindstream.820/) and on our support channels at MindStreamH2O.com.

Regards,
The team at Step Ahead Innovations, makers of the MindStream Monitor

 

[Torx]

Oddly enough several people on their FB claim to have them but no videos, reviews or information from customers or company with the actual product. Still a unicorn.

 

[Traian Boala]

This hobby is not cheap, we all know that. After all the money we spend on live stock, we need to spend more money on equipment to monitor the water in order to be sure the animals survive. We can test manually if the time allows, but in this case the human error is always a concern or we can buy devices that perform these tests automatically and with consistency (no human error). If we choose this path, we have a few options: Neptune Trident, GHL KH and ION Director, Alkatronic, Reefbot and Mindstream. Out of all, the Mindstream sets apart with two aspects: the ease of use (no calibration, no tubing, no reagents replacements) and the big number of parameters that it monitors. Sure, the 35$ monthly subscription adds up to the 1000$ initial cost, but, as I said, this hobby is not cheap. I would happily spend a half of frag monthly to be able to monitor so many parameters as long as this device will proove itself to be reliable and accurate.

 

[road_runner]

Idea and device looks interesting.
Cost is high. At $1k I would expect either no subscription or way cheaper.
How can they survive with ghl ion director and xepta are coming soon?
Time will tell.

 

[road_runner]

Woild be useful if mindstream folks do some comparison against trident and ghl in term of monthly costs... they might end up being cheaper than the test if you take in to account the monthly subscription includes everything as oppose to buy reagents and doing annual maintenance in trident or other, not to mention the number of test mindstream does...might be a good deal.
Some marketing positioning is needed to explain to customera.

 

[Jeff_H]

Oddly enough several people on their FB claim to have them but no videos, reviews or information from customers or company with the actual product. Still a unicorn.

The Trident is still a Unicorn for me! lol

I've been watching and waiting for both these products for years now, but I placed an order for the MindStream yesterday. I agree, it would be really good to get some of the beta testers on here to provide some "real world" feedback on their experience.

@BDegen - Do you have plans to allow the beta testers to share their experiences or are they still under NDA?

 

[road_runner]

The Trident is still a Unicorn for me! lol

I've been watching and waiting for both these products for years now, but I placed an order for the MindStream yesterday. I agree, it would be really good to get some of the beta testers on here to provide some "real world" feedback on their experience.

@BDegen - Do you have plans to allow the beta testers to share their experiences or are they still under NDA?

Agreed, to me trident is imaginary product, I even feel moment have passed and industry evolved beyond it sadly...
Look like now is the age of ION testing. This method will evolve more and get cheaper for sure. Depending on complicated pri pumps with their expensive maintenance will be a thing of the past.

 

[GJak]

So I sold the Apex I just purchased at RAP NY a couple of weeks ago and ordered the mindstream. I was planning on picking up a trident eventually but with the mindstream and aBex around the corner, it seems there are better options. I guess I'll be able to confirm the 6-8 week ship time in a couple of months. If it does everything it says it does and does it accurately, the $35 sub fee is nothing compared to the time it will save me manually testing.

Currently I use 2 smart power strips that cost me $79 each to schedule my lights and control all of my equipment. They give me power draw of each outlet, let me schedule on/off times, and give me manual control over all of the equipment from my tablet which is 99% of what I need out of a controller for $160 bucks. Do i need things like flow sensors on my return or being able to control my wav pumps from a controller for an exorbitant cost when I can do it with the controllers that come with the pumps? Not really. It's not like I'm changing the speed on my gyres 100 times a day.

If the mindstream delivers, I will keep the two smart power strips, run a GHL stand alone 4 pump doser and keep my tunze ATO. For $1800 that gives me literally everything I need with on demand water parameters and the ability to control lights and dosing remotely. Do I care that i need to open up 3 different apps to view everything? Not really if it stops me from going down the $5000 neptune rabbit hole.

The company going out of business or being bought out is definitely a legitimate concern with the subscription of the replacement disks but I highly doubt that the on hands experiences people have had at trade shows with the initial units are false positives for the units ability to accurately test water parameters. The $1000 price tag is peanuts when you consider how much money the average reefer has sitting under their tank in controllers with add on's that are almost more for show then serving any legitimate purpose.

The mindstream is an incredible leap forward in a crucial area of reef keeping and its surprising how many people here are poo-pooing it. I absolutely get the hesitation on dropping $1000 on an unproven product but the simplicity it offers seems like a no brainer for me. If neptune came out with a $350 add on module that counted how many times a day your clownfish pooped it would probably be on backorder for the next 6 months. That is kind of how I feel about the trident right now. Regeants, waste water.... meh.....

 

[reef_ranch]

So I sold the Apex I just purchased at RAP NY a couple of weeks ago and ordered the mindstream. I was planning on picking up a trident eventually but with the mindstream and aBex around the corner, it seems there are better options. I guess I'll be able to confirm the 6-8 week ship time in a couple of months. If it does everything it says it does and does it accurately, the $35 sub fee is nothing compared to the time it will save me manually testing.

Currently I use 2 smart power strips that cost me $79 each to schedule my lights and control all of my equipment. They give me power draw of each outlet, let me schedule on/off times, and give me manual control over all of the equipment from my tablet which is 99% of what I need out of a controller for $160 bucks. Do i need things like flow sensors on my return or being able to control my wav pumps from a controller for an exorbitant cost when I can do it with the controllers that come with the pumps? Not really. It's not like I'm changing the speed on my gyres 100 times a day.

If the mindstream delivers, I will keep the two smart power strips, run a GHL stand alone 4 pump doser and keep my tunze ATO. For $1800 that gives me literally everything I need with on demand water parameters and the ability to control lights and dosing remotely. Do I care that i need to open up 3 different apps to view everything? Not really if it stops me from going down the $5000 neptune rabbit hole.

The company going out of business or being bought out is definitely a legitimate concern with the subscription of the replacement disks but I highly doubt that the on hands experiences people have had at trade shows with the initial units are false positives for the units ability to accurately test water parameters. The $1000 price tag is peanuts when you consider how much money the average reefer has sitting under their tank in controllers with add on's that are almost more for show then serving any legitimate purpose.

The mindstream is an incredible leap forward in a crucial area of reef keeping and its surprising how many people here are poo-pooing it. I absolutely get the hesitation on dropping $1000 on an unproven product but the simplicity it offers seems like a no brainer for me. If neptune came out with a $350 add on module that counted how many times a day your clownfish pooped it would probably be on backorder for the next 6 months. That is kind of how I feel about the trident right now. Regeants, waste water.... meh.....

Consider the ability with a full blown controller to alert you and take other action such as shutting down pumps light, heater, chiller, calrx, dosers, etc. in the event of a leak or a parameter being out of your set range. Those things can save your tank and in my mind are worth the additional cost. I view the mindstream, Alkatronic, Triton and other automatic testing solutions as simply another input into the controller ecosystem.

 

[GJak]

Consider the ability with a full blown controller to alert you and take other action such as shutting down pumps light, heater, chiller, calrx, dosers, etc. in the event of a leak or a parameter being out of your set range. Those things can save your tank and in my mind are worth the additional cost. I view the mindstream, Alkatronic, Triton and other automatic testing solutions as simply another input into the controller ecosystem.

I get electrical alerts if something shuts off or if its power draw is outside of my parameters. If say a heater was leaking current or exploded in the tank and I can shut anything i need to off remotely. If my water parameters are off, the mindstream should be able to tell me that. I don't run a chiller or calcium reactor, just don't see what a controller offers me personally. I want to keep things simple so there is less that can and will go wrong. If my tank springs a leak and I'm at work, what is the Apex telling me that my floor is wet do for me? I'm not there to do anything about it.

The mindstream website also states that it is in talks with controller manufacturers (GHL and Neptune I suspect) to integrate their testing with established controllers and that the unit already has the capacity to do so built into the units that are shipping. If that is the case and I can set up a dosing pump to keep my water parameters in check automatically, i might consider an actual controller but then again the GHL stand alone doser may function in that regard anyway if it is GHL compatible.

 

[Adventures In Reefing]

I find it odd that there has not been any significant reviews on you tube for a new product that is currently being released. If it works and the price is right I will be in line to get one but the whole hush hush has me a little concerned.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

$1000 equipment cost with a mandated $35/monthly cost is a little crazy. That is an extra $420/year in subscription costs, and the subscription does not increase your one year equipment warranty. I am actually surprised a larger company has not started releasing dental controllers and monitors on a 'lease' program where you only pay a higher subscription cost.