The Mindstream is DEAD!! I'm getting mine soon!

[Torx]

Funding have nothing to do with their innovation..
They are still small. At least based on their website.
Actually funding prove they had good ideas that they secured funding on..

You are 100% correct. This is an amazing idea and tech.

However owing that much to angel investors you would assume there would be a major product push. The only questions they have answered in the last 4 days on their primary media page is questions on how to order.

 

[Jeff_H]

Great and useful data thank you.

What this missing is the cost of apex. Trident is not stand alone and to add it you need apex 2016..

I have the Trident and head unit at the bottom of the post.

Neptune Trident + Apex Head Unit
Apex Head Unit = $400
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $2,280 to $2,480

Now the price delta is only $49.25 - $99.25 per year.

 

[road_runner]

I have the Trident and head unit at the bottom of the post.

Neptune Trident + Apex Head Unit
Apex Head Unit = $400
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $2,280 to $2,480

Now the price delta is only $49.25 - $99.25 per year.

Yup noticed it later ha ha.
Great analysis.

 

[120reefkeeper]

This is how ND agreements work. Those participating are bound by the terms of the agreement. Some ND agreements are “ Looser” than others. This gives a company the chance to field test and for the lack of a better term ... abuse their new gear without having to deal with the backlash of possible failures they might encounter. It also affords they the opportunity to make it right before sending them out to the masses. Usually when a company projects a purchase date they have done the ground work already or things are looking very good. Again the ND agreements must be upheld by the participants until they are released from it.

I have dabbled in a few lol

 

[Jeff_H]

This is why I’m holding out for the aBex. I have a Apex classic . I bought it like 2 months before the 2016 model came out.

The aBex looks the most promising to me.

Bummer... I purchased the Classic about a month after you and was able to return it to BRS since I hadn't broken the seal on the box yet. The aBex looks promising, but I really don't like to calibrate PH probes, plus it looks bulky. I'm really limited under my cabinet for electronic, which is another reason why I'm favoring the MindStream.

Semper Fi

 

[Jeff_H]

Lots of good posts. But not one .. not one beta tester giving up results or a video of it in action. You can purchase it. But again no real true reviews. We have the vendor on this site. I am sure they are reading all these posts. Perhaps they will direct us to a link video or review. If they don’t respond with one something is wrong. Just my 2 cents worth .
put down 1000 and the that it arrives. are they expecting payment prior to delivery? And would delivery be past the time to dispute it on a credit card then? These are real questions that any vendor would answer on this forum right away. So looking forward to some clear answers from the rep for the company. Waiting patiently. here.

100% agree!

I'm hoping we haven't heard from any beta tester because of an NDA clause still in place. I will cancel my order in the coming weeks if I don't get a level of comfort from real reviews.

 

[MnFish1]

If you read my post, you would see exactly what I think the difference is . I am not complaining about the price- just their (possibly; theoretically,) unusual system.

They claim that the disk has to be changed every 30 days, due to algae growth, hence they will LOCK your units test ability. I think that is VERY sketchy, and the explanation is insufficient.

OK - then read between the lines. They want the monthly revenue - and this was an easy way to say it. My guess is that some problems have occurred after 29 or 30 days. Should they have said - "our business is such that to produce this unit, do the testing etc etc we need xx dollars to do so - so we will charge $35/month so we can make money and you can have a midstream". PS - I agree with you - my guess is that it could go for 2 months - but - they are saying 1. ?

 

[120reefkeeper]

Bummer... I purchased the Classic about a month after you and was able to return it to BRS since I hadn't broken the seal on the box yet. The aBex looks promising, but I really don't like to calibrate PH probes, plus it looks bulky. I'm really limited under my cabinet for electronic, which is another reason why I'm favoring the MindStream.

Semper Fi

Semper Fi DVL

I don’t mind it and I have the room for it . Just kick my current doser off to the side and move it right in lol

 

[Torx]

This is how ND agreements work. Those participating are bound by the terms of the agreement. Some ND agreements are “ Looser” than others. This gives a company the chance to field test and for the lack of a better term ... abuse their new gear without having to deal with the backlash of possible failures they might encounter. It also affords they the opportunity to make it right before sending them out to the masses. Usually when a company projects a purchase date they have done the ground work already or things are looking very good. Again the ND agreements must be upheld by the participants until they are released from it.

I have dabbled in a few lol

Yes I know how a NDA works. We all do, but why have they not released a single bit of information on the final product. Even if for some reason the NDA covers after the release of the product you would assume the company would do at least 1 promotional video with a working unit. Especially after 7 years of waiting.

 

[120reefkeeper]

Yes I know how a NDA works. We all do, but why have they not released a single bit of information on the final product. Even if for some reason the NDA covers after the release of the product you would assume the company would do at least 1 promotional video with a working unit. Especially after 7 years of waiting.

I agree ... maybe soon?? Hopefully they will read these comments and give us just a short video or something??

 

[MnFish1]

Ease of Use

• Hands off, no nonsense, all in one compact device
• No noise, liquid reagents, pumps, tubes, or toxic liquid waste

Parameters Measured

10 water parameters
Carbonate Alkalinity*, Calcium, Magnesium,
Salinity, Temperature, pH**, Oxygen,
Carbon Dioxide, Ammonia***, Potassium

Measurement Frequency

Nearly continuous

• Ten parameters, every 15 minutes
• 960 measurements/day total
• 1/8 cent/measurement

Installation

• Connect monitor to WiFi/cloud, place in tank or sump
• Minimal wait time for initial use
• No tubing installation, no user calibration, no large footprint requirement

Consumables & Maintenance

• Replace small sensor disc shipped monthly with subscription
• No liquid reagents
• No maintenance, no tubing replacement

Tank Water & Liquid Waste

• Located in the tank or sump
• Consumes no tank water
• Generates no toxic liquid waste

Calibration

• Monitors & discs are individually factory calibrated and require no user calibration

Precision

• Carbonate Alkalinity*: +/- 0.1 dKH
• Calcium: +/- 4 ppm
• Magnesium: +/- 15 ppm

Controller Integration

• SAI will offer automated doser control in the near future
• Wireless controller capability is already built-in with the latest IoT protocols
• SAI is developing partnerships with key aquarium equipment providers for controller integration

Compare to Apex. $35/month - $420 for the 10 parameters. Trident is $270/year + maintenance (75?) = 345? + replacing probes every year or so - another 100-200 $ assuming you still use the probes on the apex. This is a steal at 35$.month. and the initial cost. I would buy it in a second.

 

[Torx]

I agree ... maybe soon?? Hopefully they will read these comments and give us just a short video or something??

They have been. The profiles of employees show active on R2R today but still nothing. They are also still answering questions about how one can purchase them on their FB page but no promotional videos.

 

[120reefkeeper]

They have been. The profiles of employees show active on R2R today but still nothing. They are also still answering questions about how one can purchase them on their FB page but no promotional videos.

Well like someone said ... we will see. Maybe ?? Lol

 

[Jeff_H]

But when Apex announced the release they were all over answering questions and beta testers were helping out as well. Their forum and FB page had tons of info and active discussions. Tons of information was released. It has been 4 days now and still nothing from anyone, company or beta. NDA should be done by now.

I wish there was more coverage from MindStream too. That said - I did send them an email question yesterday about a subscription post and they replied last night. I asked a few more questions a couple of hours ago, so we'll see if they get back to me on those.

I agree ... maybe soon?? Hopefully they will read these comments and give us just a short video or something??

My theory is they had to move sooner than they originally planned due to the Triton release, plus the other products coming around the corner in August time frame. This would explain why no beta testers are talking yet and possibly why there is not a more organized marketing launch. I think I saw a video from earlier this year where they said it should be out in Q4 which would support this theory.

 

[chicago]

My point is when Neptune came out with trident they rolled it out and saw units working. I get they are a smaller company. But why are they not posting here with real answers. Answers that would take less time then it took me to post now. Show me a working unit. With some pics or video. Tell me if I order tomorrow when will i be charged on my credit card. I really Hope this product works. I do. If questions were answered. I would be ordering but not answering keeps me from hitting send. Their marketing team should be all over this reef2reef right now given the other options. And limited market share.

 

[TheHarold]

Compare to Apex. $35/month - $420 for the 10 parameters. Trident is $270/year + maintenance (75?) = 345? + replacing probes every year or so - another 100-200 $ assuming you still use the probes on the apex. This is a steal at 35$.month. and the initial cost. I would buy it in a second.

Are we including the initial $1000 cost of the Mindstream? Or adding up the cost of apex system PLUS trident? (Which has billions more features; as a controller):

 

[Jeff_H]

OK - then read between the lines. They want the monthly revenue - and this was an easy way to say it. My guess is that some problems have occurred after 29 or 30 days. Should they have said - "our business is such that to produce this unit, do the testing etc etc we need xx dollars to do so - so we will charge $35/month so we can make money and you can have a midstream". PS - I agree with you - my guess is that it could go for 2 months - but - they are saying 1. ?

According to post #109 the idea that the disk needs to be replaced due to algae growth is not true. I can't vouch for the extensive marketing research since I wasn't asked, but I guess they need to ensure it's accurate otherwise people would complain about it being wrong and damage their reputation. I'm personally OK with the subscription service, I just don't like the idea of being locked out or the unit stops at 30 days. I've asked Tech Support some detailed question about how this will work and will update everyone here if/when they reply.

We saw that there were some questions about the discs and the subscription model: the monthly subscription pays for real-time access to your monitor data, helpful graphs and tools, proactive alerts when your values are out of range, a monthly replacement sensor disc, access to knowledgeable customer support, and for the cloud computing service that takes raw readings from the monitor and turns them into a continuous feed of information for each measure. Using our web app, you can see your readings at any time from a computer or mobile device. Discs need to be replaced each month not because of algae growth, but to ensure that the highest quality readings are acquired by the monitor with no user calibration required. We have adopted the subscription model because our extensive market research has indicated the majority of our prospective customers prefer the convenience of a monthly or annual subscription along with automatic disc shipments.

 

[Jeff_H]

Are we including the initial $1000 cost of the Mindstream? Or adding up the cost of apex system PLUS trident? (Which has billions more features; as a controller):

I did a comparison earlier between the Trident and MindStream. This assumes you're only purchasing the Apex head unit to run the Trident. To get the additional features you have to pay more for EnergyBars and other widgets.

Here's the cost breakdown over a four year period for the base hardware, manufactures recommended service, and reagents. I picked four years since I don't know the cost to service the MindStream yet at the five-year mark.

Neptune Trident
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $1880 to $2,080

MindStream
Base Unit Cost = $1,000
Service - Every five years = $0
Subscription Disk = $34.95 per month or $1677 for four years
Four Year Total Cost = $2,677

Looking from this angle, I agree the basic cost comparison looks bad for MindStream, but there are other factors I would consider. If we assume the perfect world again and the accuracy between the devices is close, the question we should be asking is... Are you willing to pay $149.25 to $199.25 per year for the additional seven parameters, 15-minute sample intervals, no calibration required ever, and no wastewater or clogged tubes to deal with?

The comparison above also assumes the person already owns an Apex base unit... If not, add an additional $400 for the head unit to control the Trident. Here's what that would look like just for fun.

Neptune Trident + Apex Head Unit
Apex Head Unit = $400
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $2,280 to $2,480

Now the price delta is only $49.25 - $99.25 per year.

 

[TheHarold]

I did a comparison earlier between the Trident and MindStream. This assumes you're only purchasing the Apex head unit to run the Trident. To get the additional features you have to pay more for EnergyBars and other widgets.

Here's the cost breakdown over a four year period for the base hardware, manufactures recommended service, and reagents. I picked four years since I don't know the cost to service the MindStream yet at the five-year mark.

Neptune Trident
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $1880 to $2,080

MindStream
Base Unit Cost = $1,000
Service - Every five years = $0
Subscription Disk = $34.95 per month or $1677 for four years
Four Year Total Cost = $2,677

Looking from this angle, I agree the basic cost comparison looks bad for MindStream, but there are other factors I would consider. If we assume the perfect world again and the accuracy between the devices is close, the question we should be asking is... Are you willing to pay $149.25 to $199.25 per year for the additional seven parameters, 15-minute sample intervals, no calibration required ever, and no wastewater or clogged tubes to deal with?

The comparison above also assumes the person already owns an Apex base unit... If not, add an additional $400 for the head unit to control the Trident. Here's what that would look like just for fun.

Neptune Trident + Apex Head Unit
Apex Head Unit = $400
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $2,280 to $2,480

Now the price delta is only $49.25 - $99.25 per year.

I think you are using the price of an Apex 2016 head unit, not an EL.

(The apex EL with probes, EB832, etc is $500, and you quoted $400).

 

[road_runner]

I did a comparison earlier between the Trident and MindStream. This assumes you're only purchasing the Apex head unit to run the Trident. To get the additional features you have to pay more for EnergyBars and other widgets.

Here's the cost breakdown over a four year period for the base hardware, manufactures recommended service, and reagents. I picked four years since I don't know the cost to service the MindStream yet at the five-year mark.

Neptune Trident
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $1880 to $2,080

MindStream
Base Unit Cost = $1,000
Service - Every five years = $0
Subscription Disk = $34.95 per month or $1677 for four years
Four Year Total Cost = $2,677

Looking from this angle, I agree the basic cost comparison looks bad for MindStream, but there are other factors I would consider. If we assume the perfect world again and the accuracy between the devices is close, the question we should be asking is... Are you willing to pay $149.25 to $199.25 per year for the additional seven parameters, 15-minute sample intervals, no calibration required ever, and no wastewater or clogged tubes to deal with?

The comparison above also assumes the person already owns an Apex base unit... If not, add an additional $400 for the head unit to control the Trident. Here's what that would look like just for fun.

Neptune Trident + Apex Head Unit
Apex Head Unit = $400
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $2,280 to $2,480

Now the price delta is only $49.25 - $99.25 per year.

Its looking really attractive.

 

[Jeff_H]

I think you are using the price of an Apex 2016 head unit, not an EL.

(The apex EL with probes, EB832, etc is $500, and you quoted $400).

Correct. I went the cheapest possible way for the Apex. I don't disagree the Apex has other functions, that just wasn't the point of the comparison since MindStream doesn't have fit into that category.