The Mindstream is DEAD!! I'm getting mine soon!

[Leslie Tabor]

Fair enough. I am always the skeptic, lol.

Obviously different tanks have different algae growth patterns. My tank with zero nutrients will be very different algae growth from someone’s softie tank.

Their current claims regarding the subscription make ZERO sense to me.

If they did not force that it needed to be changed every month, I would be much more interested.

For their claim to be accurate, it has to fall within 2 areas.... either the results after 29 days are still perfect, or they are no good. And that’s based on algae growth..... which is a factor that varies a LOT.

You are really focused on that 29 days. I am looking at it like this...your milk has a BEST BY date...the milk does not go bad at midnight, you got a day or 2 of wiggle room.

 

[chicago]

Still nothing from the vendor. Has anyone seen one working unit sold to a consumer. ?
If they did this word would travel and that would be the talking the posts here. Not one inboxing video. Hmm. Time will tell

 

[MnFish1]

Are we including the initial $1000 cost of the Mindstream? Or adding up the cost of apex system PLUS trident? (Which has billions more features; as a controller):

No - so - Apex +trident = 1300+ modules (however many to make it a complete controller 400?) +$20/month for trident reagents + 10$/month for trident maintenance + probes yearly (15$/m) compared to 1000 +35$/month for midstream (and no need to replace probes)

I dont use my apex as much as a controller - because I use the controllers that come with each piece of equipment, 2 I've had problems trying to control 'everything' with my apex - and like the redundancy of not using it that way. In other words - I dont need 90% of the billions of things the apex 'can do'.

So another way to look at would be - Apex Classic +Mindstream for example is less expensive than apex + trident - with the monthly fees included. Don't worry - I'm not planning on ditching my apex - but - I am reconsidering going with the Trident depending on how the mindstream works out.

 

[MnFish1]

I did a comparison earlier between the Trident and MindStream. This assumes you're only purchasing the Apex head unit to run the Trident. To get the additional features you have to pay more for EnergyBars and other widgets.

Here's the cost breakdown over a four year period for the base hardware, manufactures recommended service, and reagents. I picked four years since I don't know the cost to service the MindStream yet at the five-year mark.

Neptune Trident
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $1880 to $2,080

MindStream
Base Unit Cost = $1,000
Service - Every five years = $0
Subscription Disk = $34.95 per month or $1677 for four years
Four Year Total Cost = $2,677

Looking from this angle, I agree the basic cost comparison looks bad for MindStream, but there are other factors I would consider. If we assume the perfect world again and the accuracy between the devices is close, the question we should be asking is... Are you willing to pay $149.25 to $199.25 per year for the additional seven parameters, 15-minute sample intervals, no calibration required ever, and no wastewater or clogged tubes to deal with?

The comparison above also assumes the person already owns an Apex base unit... If not, add an additional $400 for the head unit to control the Trident. Here's what that would look like just for fun.

Neptune Trident + Apex Head Unit
Apex Head Unit = $400
Base Unit Cost = $600
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost = $2,280 to $2,480

Now the price delta is only $49.25 - $99.25 per year.

You're forgetting the probe replacement for the Apex. So that can be up to $300 or so/year. The compelling thing for me would be the additional seven parameters, 15-minute sample intervals, no calibration required ever, and no wastewater or clogged tubes to deal with?

EDIT - sorry phone - that should read $300 or so per 3-4 years (the Poster was using a 4 year time frame)

 

[TheHarold]

You're forgetting the probe replacement for the Apex. So that can be up to $300 or so/year. The compelling thing for me would be the additional seven parameters, 15-minute sample intervals, no calibration required ever, and no wastewater or clogged tubes to deal with?

What are you talking about with probe replacement, dude?!?! There is none.

 

[Torx]

There is 0 reason to replace probes yearly for the Apex. Most run them for 3-5 before replacing them. Especially now that lab grade probes are the included probes.

 

[MnFish1]

What are you talking about with probe replacement, dude?!?! There is none.

For the apex? The conductivity probe needs replacement at about 3 years (reading on different sites - and the Neptune systems webpage).; The ph and others I have read and where between 'years' and 1.5-2 years. You're right the lab grade probes for pH have extended the length. Maybe some people are more anal than others. In my case - my pH and Ca probes stopped working after 1.5 years. My salinity probe has stopped working after 2 years (I havent replaced it) - just use a refractometer.

EDIT - ORP probe - not CA probe

 

[TheHarold]

For the apex? The conductivity probe needs replacement at about 3 years (reading on different sites - and the Neptune systems webpage).; The ph and others I have read and where between 'years' and 1.5-2 years. You're right the lab grade probes for pH have extended the length. Maybe some people are more anal than others. In my case - my pH and Ca probes stopped working after 1.5 years. My salinity probe has stopped working after 2 years (I havent replaced it) - just use a refractometer.

You have a Ca probe?

My apex LITE still has the original pH probe

 

[MnFish1]

There is 0 reason to replace probes yearly for the Apex. Most run them for 3-5 before replacing them. Especially now that lab grade probes are the included probes.

I averaged it out per month. I wasn't suggesting replacing every probe yearly. but per BRS the total for all 4 probes is about $300 so you're right - its about 7.50/month - 100$/year averaged.

 

[MnFish1]

You have a Ca probe?

My apex LITE still has the original pH probe

LOl - I meant the ORP probe. sorry

 

[shred5]

I just want to say I am excited about the Xepta Abex and ion testing seems to be the future. Kind of makes the Trident and some of the other reagent systems obsolete if either Abex or GHL comes out soon.

I first want to say I am not testing the Abex or have not heard anything about me testing it and I have heard nothing from anyone from Coralvue yet about the product. I just wanted to say that because I have tested stuff in the past for them. They have very tight NDA so that is why we have not heard anything I am sure.

I have seen and heard some rumblings on it though. Supposedly is going to work with the new Vertex controller, I believe it was a post on R2R. I have not heard a release date but I have heard this year maybe even summer. Take all of it with a grain of salt though. Honestly I have seen the video and seen a few things on FB about it and that is it. They have a FB page.

As far NDA they are all different from company to company and also depends at what point in testing it is. I have tested for a few companies. I know Coralvues are pretty tight and for a reason. I know when I was testing you could not even say you were. Look at the whole Trident issue. So my guess since it was shown already at Rap there are most likely some testers out there.

 

[MnFish1]

I just want to say I am excited about the Xepta Abex and ion testing seems to be the future. Kind of makes the Trident and some of the other reagent systems obsolete if either Abex or GHL comes out soon.

I first want to say I am not testing the Abex or have not heard anything about me testing it and I have heard nothing from anyone from Coralvue yet about the product. I just wanted to say that because I have tested stuff in the past for them. They have very tight NDA so that is why we have not heard anything I am sure.

I have seen and heard some rumblings on it though. Supposedly is going to work with the new Vertex controller, I believe it was a post on R2R. I have not heard a release date but I have heard this year maybe even summer. Take all of it with a grain of salt though. Honestly I have seen the video and seen a few things on FB about it and that is it. They have a FB page.

As far NDA they are all different from company to company and also depends at what point in testing it is. I have tested for a few companies. I know Coralvues are pretty tight and for a reason. I know when I was testing you could not even say you were. Look at the whole Trident issue. So my guess since it was shown already at Rap there are most likely some testers out there.

The Apex does not monitor alkalinity though - or perhaps I misread.

EDIT - Darn autocorrect - I meant the ABEX does not monitor alk

 

[Torx]

aBex Xepta is taking orders now from distributers. I have an info request it but being in Canada we always get info last

 

[Torx]

The Apex does not monitor alkalinity though - or perhaps I misread.

It does. The GHL Ion and Xepta do not. There is no way to test Kh via ionic probes

 

[shred5]

The Apex does not monitor alkalinity though - or perhaps I misread.

I have no idea on the Abex, like I said I have basically seen all the same info out there others have.

I do hate the name being so close to Apex.

 

[MnFish1]

It does. The GHL Ion and Xepta do not. There is no way to test Kh via ionic probes

The autocorrect on my phone is crazy - - I meant the ABEX doesnt measure alkalinity

 

[shred5]

The autocorrect on my phone is crazy - - I meant the ABEX doesnt measure alkalinity

I figured, that is why I answered the way I did.

 

[Entz]

The autocorrect on my phone is crazy - - I meant the ABEX doesnt measure alkalinity

I am sure its no coincidence its that close.
While it is true the Abex can't do it, it requires the base AutoBalance unit which does measure Alkalinity so your covered anyways. Honestly at this point, since neither are out and the KH tester market is largish now, they didn't just make one super unit.

 

[MnFish1]

What are you talking about with probe replacement, dude?!?! There is none.

Came out on R2R today - BRS suggests (with a Ca reactor or if the pH probe is controlling anything) replace every 9 months. Otherwise when it becomes unstable within 2-3 months - or starts taking longer to do the calibration process...

 

[ppatches24]

Idea and device looks interesting.
Cost is high. At $1k I would expect either no subscription or way cheaper.
How can they survive with ghl ion director and xepta are coming soon?
Time will tell.

Looking at all of those solutions for auto testing I would go with the mindstream everytime. If anything you just sold me more on the mindstream after looking at the products.... Just a thought.