There is a poison in my new AIO?

[TangerineSpeedo]

I am stumped on this one. Last week I set up an IM 30L AIO. It was supposed to be my easy tank. Just slow death to fish now. Hopefully someone can give me an insight that I am missing. I just had two damels die overnight, no visible signs of anything until it was too late. This is not my first rodeo and currently running six successful tanks from 3-40g.
The process:
New IM AIO, wiped down with RODI.
Added five 5lb. bags of Ocean Direct sand.
Mixed up a batch of IO with RODI ( 0 TDS ), added to tank, with packets from sand.
Added two 10lb boxes of carib sea life rock, rinsed with RODI, glued a couple bits together with Superglue gel.
Added floss, established ceramic bio material from my 40, a bag of carbon in the caddy and the sock in the other.
Turned on pump.
Next day added a bottle 2oz of DR. Tims one and only.
Week later, yesterday, added a couple Damsels, did not make it 24hrs, first one was gone 12hrs. Thought it might be just something other than what it was, because the other was acting fine. Until it wasn’t hours later.
Tested RODI for chlorine 0, tank was running for a week, so that would be gone anyway, plus no ill-effects on any of my other tanks.
Salinity 33.9 ppt
PH 8.3
Alk 8.9
Temp 79F
Salt was Instant Ocean
All other parameters are zero, Ammonia, Nitrite, etc.
I am at a loss, I would figure anything ( heavy metals, poison, bad juju) the carbon would filter out.
Thanks in advance to anybody that has experience or an insight to this sort of thing.
This is a pic from last week.

 

[DaneGer21]

IMO way to early/fast to add fish regardless of adding bacteria; but that’s just me

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

IMO way to early/fast to add fish regardless of adding bacteria; but that’s just me

What is the basis in that? I add fish to a fresh QT system all the time. Like I said in my post, I added an established ceramic media to the system. I in NO WAY over worked the BioLoad.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Well, I'm not an expert on this by any means, but here are some thoughts to hopefully help get the ball rolling on figuring out the issue:

- What (if any) symptoms did the damsels show before/while/after dying? (i.e. did they have any white spots, injuries, discoloration, rapid breathing, etc. - was there anything noticeably wrong at any point?)
- Is there any way the fish could have been exposed to toxins? (i.e. is there anything that might be toxic in the tank with them? Is there anyway you or someone else could have inadvertently introduced toxins into the tank such as by having lotion or something on your skin while working in the tank? Could they have been exposed to aerosolized toxins like bug spray, house cleaners, cologne, potentially even something like scented candles or incense? )
- Have you double-checked your test results and/or compared them against a different test kit?
- What are you acclimation methods/protocols? Could something have gone wrong during acclimation this time?
- I know the setup is new, but is there a chance that somehow you have stray voltage in the tank?
- Might the damsels have died from disease, stress, and/or transport conditions that would have been out of your control?

 

[Dan_P]

I am stumped on this one. Last week I set up an IM 30L AIO. It was supposed to be my easy tank. Just slow death to fish now. Hopefully someone can give me an insight that I am missing. I just had two damels die overnight, no visible signs of anything until it was too late. This is not my first rodeo and currently running six successful tanks from 3-40g.
The process:
New IM AIO, wiped down with RODI.
Added five 5lb. bags of Ocean Direct sand.
Mixed up a batch of IO with RODI ( 0 TDS ), added to tank, with packets from sand.
Added two 10lb boxes of carib sea life rock, rinsed with RODI, glued a couple bits together with Superglue gel.
Added floss, established ceramic bio material from my 40, a bag of carbon in the caddy and the sock in the other.
Turned on pump.
Next day added a bottle 2oz of DR. Tims one and only.
Week later, yesterday, added a couple Damsels, did not make it 24hrs, first one was gone 12hrs. Thought it might be just something other than what it was, because the other was acting fine. Until it wasn’t hours later.
Tested RODI for chlorine 0, tank was running for a week, so that would be gone anyway, plus no ill-effects on any of my other tanks.
Salinity 33.9 ppt
PH 8.3
Alk 8.9
Temp 79F
Salt was Instant Ocean
All other parameters are zero, Ammonia, Nitrite, etc.
I am at a loss, I would figure anything ( heavy metals, poison, bad juju) the carbon would filter out.
Thanks in advance to anybody that has experience or an insight to this sort of thing.
This is a pic from last week.

The zeroes on all parameters is like anuncycled aquarium.

How ammonia did you add along with Dr. Tim’s?

 

[LeftyReefer]

low O2 maybe? in that picture, I'm not seeing much movement at the surface for much gas exchange. Does this system have a skimmer or some other means of introducing O2?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Well, I'm not an expert on this by any means, but here are some thoughts to hopefully help get the ball rolling on figuring out the issue:

- What (if any) symptoms did the damsels show before/while/after dying? (i.e. did they have any white spots, injuries, discoloration, rapid breathing, etc. - was there anything noticeably wrong at any point?)
- Is there any way the fish could have been exposed to toxins? (i.e. is there anything that might be toxic in the tank with them? Is there anyway you or someone else could have inadvertently introduced toxins into the tank such as by having lotion or something on your skin while working in the tank? Could they have been exposed to aerosolized toxins like bug spray, house cleaners, cologne, potentially even something like scented candles or incense? )
- Have you double-checked your test results and/or compared them against a different test kit?
- What are you acclimation methods/protocols? Could something have gone wrong during acclimation this time?
- I know the setup is new, but is there a chance that somehow you have stray voltage in the tank?
- Might the damsels have died from disease, stress, and/or transport conditions that would have been out of your control?

Literally no symptoms until the very end, then rapid breathing, no discoloration, nothing, very similar to chlorine poisoning, but tested my RODI, after carbon and after the DI nothing. Also point of note same water used on 6 other tanks. Very aware of introductions of other toxins into a system, also carbon running for a whole week, hopefully would have pulled out anything. While ammonia test kit I have is API I use the seachem alert badges all the time (QT tanks) and both read zero. My others are Hanna that I use and trust on my other tanks. The fish were put in a separate critter keeper with the water they came in and every 10 mins or so I would put some tank water in. for about an hour then they were netted and put into the DT.
No stress, didn’t show signs of stress, no breathing at the top of tank, no darting or flashing or struggle.
Stray voltage is an idea, have a 100w heater that I have used before/ recently and the mighty jet pump that comes with it.
Thanks for your input.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

The zeroes on all parameters is like anuncycled aquarium.

How ammonia did you add along with Dr. Tim’s?

Thanks, It was technically not cycled. But it had established bio media that would have taken care of any of the fish waste, I just put in the Dr. Tims because I was seeing if I could seed the new rock faster. It was some left over from another tank last weekend (temperate) that had lost a couple of fish when my cooler blew a fuse in the middle of the night.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

low O2 maybe? in that picture, I'm not seeing much movement at the surface for much gas exchange. Does this system have a skimmer or some other means of introducing O2?

Thanks for the Idea. But the IM AIO has a pretty good gas exchange starting from a waterfall through the weir into the sock/caddy area. then more gas exchange where it falls into the return chamber. Also my jets are aimed so they ripple the surface

 

[Who me?]

IMO your tank is just starting a cycle. Doesn't matter if you moved ceramic media.... A tank will only support so much bacteria, chances are the ceramic media didn't have enough bacteria to support the 30 gallon water column. Sure it came from a 40 gallon tank, but most of that tanks bacteria is/was probably on the other live rock, sand, other surfaces so you only moved a small amount of bacteria.

You need to allow time for the bacteria to multiply and provide a sufficient biofilter.

 

[DaneGer21]

What is the basis in that? I add fish to a fresh QT system all the time. Like I said in my post, I added an established ceramic media to the system. I in NO WAY over worked the BioLoad.

I vote you over worked the non established bacteria lol. But like I mentioned earlier, that’s just my opinion.

 

[Who me?]

I vote you over worked the non established bacteria lol. But like I mentioned earlier, that’s just my opinion.

Agree 100%.
Moving a small amount of bacteria from an established system does not create an instantly cycled and mature tank.

 

[Lavey29]

Agree 100%.
Moving a small amount of bacteria from an established system does not create an instantly cycled and mature tank.

Agree and the quick rapid breathing death of the fish supports ammonia poisoning.

 

[Tamberav]

Did you check the salinity of the water in the damsels bag?

Just throwing a wrench out there.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Did you check the salinity of the water in the damsels bag?

Just throwing a wrench out there.

Yes, it was close. Wrenches are good, because I am clueless.
Not agreeing with ammonia poisoning. No detected ammonia…

 

[Lavey29]

Yes, it was close. Wrenches are good, because I am clueless.
Not agreeing with ammonia poisoning. No detected ammonia…

Did you even check the tank to see if it completed cycle prior to fish? Did you add ammonia to begin the cycle even with your existing transfer media? Did you verify 0 ammonia via test kit not unreliable strips and confirm nitrates building in the tank prior to fish?

A lot of transfer tanks go through mini cycles too.

 

[Tamberav]

Just random pick up of damsels at the LFS? Do you know if they were eating or how long the LFS had them?

 

[Jeffcb]

Back in the old days before bac in a bottle was around that's how we cycled tanks, with Damsel.
You may have got some bad Damsel. Normally they are very hardy.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

Were the damsels qt'd? If not I'd suspect disease before anything. Even if there's not enough bacteria if there's no ammonia they shouldn't die from it just being a new tank. But like someone said earlier the water seems pretty stagnant and low O2 could be a definite cause as well

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

@Reefer71 @Lavey29 @DaneGer21
First of all, I set up 10g QT tanks all the time with NO bio filtration and do 100% water changes every three days, yes there is a bit of ammonia but nothing toxic. Second these 2 Damsels were in the tank for less than 24 hours/ 12hrs when the first one died. The dilution factor alone of ammonia, IF there was No bio filtration would take over a week to get to toxic levels in a 30g with two tiny damsels.
I also tested the water not with test strips...
This Tank also test out at 0 across the board... Must still be going thru a cycle

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