This could end very badly for our hobby ...

BRS
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what about situation in Philippines, Srilanka, Indonesia, maldives, . Its worst than one could imagine. Hawaii is more controlled, i haven't seen a hawaiian yellow tang since couple of years in Asian market. Even red sea is being exploited these days, they have strict policies though! corruption leads to exploitation.
This is coming from an ex-wholesaler/distributor from Asia.
 
WWC
that Reef Guy said:
How did they harass them?
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They had divers that would try to interfere with their collection (scaring the fish, etc), They also would board the collectors boat while they were submerged. We were told they would release fish if they found them and the collectors were concerned they tampered with their diving equipment. If you dive you know how much of a concern that is. We did not witness this, just told this by locals there.

The episode where one of their group was charged with harassment and a collector charged with assault also involved them allegedly boarding his boat as I recall. Two of the divers that told us this were not collectors but were marine biologists and they did not hold a complimentary view of Snorkle Bob and his activists.
 
AS
saltyhog said:
They had divers that would try to interfere with their collection (scaring the fish, etc), They also would board the collectors boat while they were submerged. We were told they would release fish if they found them and the collectors were concerned they tampered with their diving equipment. If you dive you know how much of a concern that is. We did not witness this, just told this by locals there.

The episode where one of their group was charged with harassment and a collector charged with assault also involved them allegedly boarding his boat as I recall. Two of the divers that told us this were not collectors but were marine biologists and they did not hold a complimentary view of Snorkel Bob and his activists.
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These were the events that led up to Rene Umberger's famous "assault". Groups at the behest of SSCS and Snorkel Bob had been raiding collector's boats and operations, while also trying to film collectors underwater. Eventually, the levy broke and one collector swam up to Umberger underwater, yanked her regulator out of her mouth and shoved her. Of course, both she and Snorkel Bob plastered footage of the event everywhere and used it to try and demonstrate the horrid mentality of fish collectors. Snorkel Bob uses this same tactic when speaking with aquarists, he will threaten and incite harm against the aquarist and their family, but if you react with anything less than a polite response, he will plaster it everywhere, remove his incendiary comments and say, "See how horrible these people are."

It's been the goal of PETA, HSA and many others to end animals in captivity. That really is their end-goal and when looking through much of their literature, it points directly to that. PETA wants everyone to be vegan and the right to eat meat and consume/use animal products banned entirely. I have no issues with an outlet or legislator that wants to tighten animal cruelty laws and ensure the best habitat for captive animals, but I take issue with groups that want to entirely ban the presence of companion animals, pets, marine parks, zoos, etc. Humans have been keeping and breeding companion animals since shortly after we left Africa and migrated outward into the world. It's an ancient tradition that has enriched the lives of both humans and animals. Ironically, the dog is the second most successful species on the planet compared to humans. Many dog behaviorists believe it's because they were domesticated by humans. Questions are now being asked if dogs were not the one that passed the olive branch to humans, rather than humans taking dogs and forcibly domesticating them. This theory is based off the fact that wolves were feared and revered by ancient man and there is nothing to suggest that ancient man would have any desire to capture a wolf and have it running around their village. The belief is that the wolves realized man's rise up the food chain and thought that by becoming man's ally, they would also increase their survivability.
 
I was reading an article about "ecotourism causing more harm than good" on national geographic, I wonder if Snorkel Bob really cares for marine life and the sustainability of the marine environment he would close his business?.
 
becks said:
I was reading an article about "ecotourism causing more harm than good" on national geographic, I wonder if Snorkel Bob really cares for marine life and the sustainability of the marine environment he would close his business?.
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Excellent Point.
 
nah, most of these reef species can be propagated in captivity and i don't think they are overexploited. are they really all coming from hawaii, i thought most of the aquarium fishes come from southeast asia. the cleaner wrasses (different species) are still in over abundance in southeast asia.
 
becks said:
I was reading an article about "ecotourism causing more harm than good" on national geographic, I wonder if Snorkel Bob really cares for marine life and the sustainability of the marine environment he would close his business?.
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I've seen firsthand how many snorkelers they put in the water at one time - it's insane. They (and other outfits - they are not alone in this) will pack their boats to their legal limits, take all those people to one spot on the reef (often a more shallow spot; <20ft to reef top), and then put them all in the water with only marginal in-water monitoring. Often, this occurs with multiple boats in the water near the same local (eg; Molokini Crater).
Now; I begrudge no-one the use of the ocean - it is for everyone to enjoy (and care for). If people are willing to get out there and see the wonders it contains, then by all means; do so. The part that bothers me is the scale of the operations. I have zero facts to show anything, but knowing (from lots of personal experience) how little skill most people have at snorkeling without training. So I can only assume that having that many people in the water, under such loose supervision, can not be healthy for the reef above which they are placed...
 
I feel like we need to be honest with ourselves about Bob's message - he IS a nutter, he DOES overstate his proofs, and he IS an eco-terrorist....BUT....there are grains of truth in what he says nonetheless. There are companies that chose profit over responsibility, there are tank keepers that put fish in less than healthy conditions, and there are livestock providers that sell indiscriminantly and even illegally. All of these things are a stain on our hobby, and dismissing them simply because of the source is a dangerous form of denial.

Best thing to counter Bob's message is groups like this one that promote responsibility and humanity embracing the things that are wrong in the industry, and being proactive in combating them. Groups that raise awareness and understanding, and are the antithesis of what he claims is the norm, will continue to dilute his message if we strive to high standards in what we do.
 
ReefBot Lab, Automated Water Tester
I just got back from Hawaii and I have to admit there is no sign of yellow tang, flame angel ect at oahu I snorkel several site but no sign of those fish. Only when I go to maui then I see yellow tang. Don't know what cause it but the only fish left is the trigger and damsel
 
By the way the 30,000$ pepper mint angel fish die at the waikiki aquarium 4 months ago
 
Nutramar Foods
N0W3P said:
I feel like we need to be honest with ourselves about Bob's message - he IS a nutter, he DOES overstate his proofs, and he IS an eco-terrorist....BUT....there are grains of truth in what he says nonetheless. There are companies that chose profit over responsibility, there are tank keepers that put fish in less than healthy conditions, and there are livestock providers that sell indiscriminantly and even illegally. All of these things are a stain on our hobby, and dismissing them simply because of the source is a dangerous form of denial.

Best thing to counter Bob's message is groups like this one that promote responsibility and humanity embracing the things that are wrong in the industry, and being proactive in combating them. Groups that raise awareness and understanding, and are the antithesis of what he claims is the norm, will continue to dilute his message if we strive to high standards in what we do.
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Check out what we do. We are trying even if in small area. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/operation-reef-awareness.262492/
 
Love it DeniseAndy! If it were mathatically possible to be more than 100% in favor of this, I would be! Diving changed my view of the ecosystem, and sharing the aquatic world with my kids has definitely done the same. Big high five for a very cool mission!
 
Nutramar Foods
BRS

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%

  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%

  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%

  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
See comments…

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