THIS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!

[Dj City]

I have had this tank running for almost 5 years and I can't beat Diatoms. It's been a constant no matter what I've done.

Over the years I have
Used RO/DI water exclusively
Replaces my sump
Replaced my CUC
Used Biopellets in reactor
Used GFO and Rox8 Carbon in dual reactor
Used GFO and Rox8 Carbon in separate reactors
Upgraded lighting
Reduced lighting time
DO NOT OVERFEED
Hydrogen Peroxide dosing
Vacuumed sandbed
Used Algae Reactor
Set up larger Refugium
Implemented the Triton Method
I'm sure there are things I've tried other things that i'm forgetting.

I am trying a 3 day blackout as I type this but i'm not expecting great results.

I just want this brown stuff on the sandbed GONE!!! I want it GONE for GOOD!!!

Here are pics of this brown/red/rust colored stuff on my sandbed and I want to DEFEAT THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL!

Please help a fellow reefer out with finding a solution to this 5 year old problem.

 

[mahindra.dev]

Did you try adding a diamond goby??

 

[Servillius]

This is a guess based on very limited evidence, so please don’t take it as anything other than a friendly thought that has a small chance of being relevant in tracking down a tough problem.

You sound a bit like me, wildly impatient and prone to much experiment.

If I saw what you have in one of my tanks, I’d use (1) sufficient but not excessive (2) properly tumbling (3) GFO. I only say GFO instead of my favorite (Seagel) because some folks worry about alumina.

The problem is your tank is a phosphate battery. It’s been charging up for some time; the sand in particular can be really good at this. You have to use the Seagel to actually reverse the direction from uptake to leeching our then keep it there for a very long time. I’ve had tanks take more than 6 months to start depleting the phosphate reserve.

To do this, I’d stick the recommended amount of Seagel in a reactor and replace it with a new batch every day for three or four days (if you have a quality test like Hanna, do it until you get under about 10 ppb (and you’ll get told nutrients too low is a problem; as long as you have phosphate reserves in the rock and sand, it won’t get too low - it will settle into an equilibrium, but now with the net phosphate flow coming out of the rock instead of into it). Once you get it low enough, watch it and replace it when phosphate starts to go up. Test at least twice a week though maybe not more because testing too often can drive me batty chasing numbers.

If you keep this up long enough, you will eventually strip out the problem (at which point ease off on the Seagel so you’re not overdoing it).

I would also stick the stuff under a microscope to make sure it’s not dino. It doesn’t look like it, but microscopy is the only way to know for sure (though if three days lights out seems to kill it and you see whispy white stuff in its place at its thickest spots, that would also suggest it was dino).

 

[Dj City]

I did this ICP test about 2 months ago.
My DKH is currently holding at 8.5 but I'm sure I am still I am low on the things this test says i'm low on.

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/view/16965


What in this analysis do I REALLY have to be concerned with and what dies this tell you about why i'm having the Diatom problem?

 

[Dj City]

Did you try adding a diamond goby??

I think my Lionfish might be happy if I added a Diamond goby but the goby would not like it very much.

 

[Rick Krejci]

Sure it's diatoms and not Dinos? Do they trap air bubbles?

How's your circulation in the tank?

How thick is your sand bed?

Are your Nitrate and/or Phosphate levels always near 0? You don't want either bottomed out long term, particularly if it turns out to be dinos.

Blackouts can temporarily help, but will come back if the source of the issue isn't dealt with.

 

[Rick Krejci]

I did this ICP test about 2 months ago.
My DKH is currently holding at 8.5 but I'm sure I am still I am low on the things this test says i'm low on.

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/view/16965


What in this analysis do I REALLY have to be concerned with and what dies this tell you about why i'm having the Diatom problem?

Can't see it without logging in. High Silicon(Si) would be an indicator for diatoms.

 

[AlexStinson]

You can always go barebottom, on a mature reef it really isn't as noticable as you think.

 

[Dj City]

This is a guess based on very limited evidence, so please don’t take it as anything other than a friendly thought that has a small chance of being relevant in tracking down a tough problem.

You sound a bit like me, wildly impatient and prone to much experiment.

If I saw what you have in one of my tanks, I’d use (1) sufficient but not excessive (2) properly tumbling (3) GFO. I only say GFO instead of my favorite (Seagel) because some folks worry about alumina.

The problem is your tank is a phosphate battery. It’s been charging up for some time; the sand in particular can be really good at this. You have to use the Seagel to actually reverse the direction from uptake to leeching our then keep it there for a very long time. I’ve had tanks take more than 6 months to start depleting the phosphate reserve.

To do this, I’d stick the recommended amount of Seagel in a reactor and replace it with a new batch every day for three or four days (if you have a quality test like Hanna, do it until you get under about 10 ppb (and you’ll get told nutrients too low is a problem; as long as you have phosphate reserves in the rock and sand, it won’t get too low - it will settle into an equilibrium, but now with the net phosphate flow coming out of the rock instead of into it). Once you get it low enough, watch it and replace it when phosphate starts to go up. Test at least twice a week though maybe not more because testing too often can drive me batty chasing numbers.

If you keep this up long enough, you will eventually strip out the problem (at which point ease off on the Seagel so you’re not overdoing it).

I would also stick the stuff under a microscope to make sure it’s not dino. It doesn’t look like it, but microscopy is the only way to know for sure (though if three days lights out seems to kill it and you see whispy white stuff in its place at its thickest spots, that would also suggest it was dino).

Thank you for the advice.
I am wildly patient! I have been with this problem for 5 YEARS.
I have used and still use GFO (High capacity GFO) but no dent in the problem. I have had and still have the correct flow through it. I have a gentle bubbling/tumbling.
According to my last ICP test on April 30, 2018 I may not have enough Phosphate...

Nitrate 8.98 mg/l 2.00 mg/l +6.98 mg/l

Phosphorus 2.69 µg/l 7.24 µg/l -4.54 µg/l

Phosphate 0.01 mg/l 0.02 mg/l -0.01 mg/l

I'm willing to do ALMOST anything (within reason) to be rid of this problem.

 

[Dj City]

@Rick Krejci

Silicates....

Silicon 189.5 µg/l 90.44 µg/l +99.06 µg/l

This stuff does not trap air bubbles.
Flow is GREAT.
I have a maxspect Gyre FX150 on one side of the tank and the Jeabo Crossflow on the other along with 2 Jeabo wavemaker pumps on the back wall along with a Vortech MP10 on the back wall in the center of the tank.

I do not have a deep sandbed. It may be 2 inches in some spots, one inch in other spots.

 

[tiggs]

Probably not the case here, but if you're using Prodibio products and dosing more than recommended, it will also cause this behavior when used in conjunction with biopellets. This one's a long shot, but figured it was worth mentioning. If not, then I agree with the others about stripping nutrients too quickly.

 

[Dj City]

I don't use biopellets anymore.
That reactor has been offline for a year now.
I also don't use Prodibio. I don't even know what that is.

 

[MarkZ]

What do you have for a clean up crew? I don't see anything. i think Nassarius Snail's would help a ton, and I also have two Goby's, a Diamond Goby and a Gold Head Goby. they all mix up the sand bed. Also a UV light wouldn't hurt, I run mine 12 hours a day. I bought a 40 watt Emperor Aquatics, Its over kill for my tank that's why I only run it 12 hours. Plus I'll be upgrading to a large tank soon.


https://www.marineandreef.com/Smart...6v9skOt_cKcsFvOFrqhBTldEwmdFaeYBoC6M8QAvD_BwE

 

[Dj City]

I have the same UV Sterilizer (also offline) It's a BEAST but it did nothing for this problem. I have it in case I need to but I don't run it on the regular.

I have a LARGE and I do mean LARGE turbo snail. Other various snails and crabs including nassarius snails that rise from the dead when food is introduced to the tank.

 

[Dj City]

My Lion eats whole Silversides so I think and goby would just be an expensive snack.

 

[timnem70]

You can always go barebottom, on a mature reef it really isn't as noticable as you think.

Did with mine. For my soft tank it has really worked out well for a couple years now. Really helps with the variables described above.

 

[WVNed]

Increase your flow and turn down the white channels on your lights.

 

[MarkZ]

I have the same UV Sterilizer (also offline) It's a BEAST but it did nothing for this problem. I have it in case I need to but I don't run it on the regular.

I have a LARGE and I do mean LARGE turbo snail. Other various snails and crabs including nassarius snails that rise from the dead when food is introduced to the tank.

i would try to put the lion in a different tank for a month or two. get a couple goby's and run the UV 24/7 oh just so you know flow on your UV matters a ton, you need to match flow with the makers numbers on their website. I would bet money your problems would go away. how many times a hour in your tank turning over?

 

[Dj City]

@WVNed

My whites are on 5% and blue on 15%
Lights are on a total of 5hrs a day

I don't know how to increase flow any more.
I have a maxspect Gyre FX250 on one side of the tank and the Jeabo Crossflow on the other along with 2 Jeabo wavemaker pumps on the back wall in the corners and a Vortech MP10 on the back wall in the center of the tank.
My return pump is a Jeabo DCP 10000

 

[Littlemikey]

Look up the article about vibrant. I had a diatom problem and after use I have clear sand. I don’t think it’s all thanks to vibrant but it’s worth a try.