To Skim or not to skim?

[flyingscampi]

RSR 200 XL with no skimmer as I use the chamber as a refugium swamp that keeps nutrients at healthy levels for my current bioload and LPS corals. I clean the return pump, heaters, and baffle sponge once a month but otherwise leave the sump alone.

The return pump nozzle and a powerhead pointed at the surface provides aeration.

 

[Pod_01]

Skimmer only removes 30% of the organics before they’ve had a chance to break down. Fuge appropriately sized can remove them all.

Skimmer raises pH for those not having high levels of co2 in their house otherwise require a co2 scrubber and if running a calcium reactor have to contend with that being added and there’s no co2 scrubber to remove that. Fuge solves both issues.

Adding elements such as iron isn’t really that difficult or complicated.

You mention the marketing of algae yet same can be said of skimmers which I recall started early 90s. They might have been known about here in the 80s but I don’t recall any LFS then having them. They were still busy switching from DLS to plastic balls.

Fuge takes up less space than a skimmer. Less maintenance. Can be controlled based on pH where set points can turn it off and on just like a heater and further tuned if bottoming out nutrients too effective although I’d rather just feed more or dose those nutrients. We dose everything else.

Box of algae with light is KISS to me vs entire sump system with socks/roller mats plus co2 scrubber plus constant maintenance of all that vs just grabbing some algae and tossing or selling it to the LFS, club or swap. Don’t know of any that have capitalized skimmate.

Talking about marketing. Sumps have become more expensive than some tanks and often the focus of seeking instagram likes. Sumps of old just acrylic boxes until Oceanic built them out of glass. Those were work of arts yet still didn’t cost the price of a small car.

In the 80s knew a couple of LFS employees that deployed a Rubbermaid or Steralite container with a shop light and grew Caulerpa. Wasn’t called a refugium then. Just a makeshift sump. Doesn’t get more KISS than that.

Around the 70s I recall the use of co2 and iron plus other supplements to grow FW plants. I’m sure they were around prior but that’s before my time. Much of the dosing based on the color of the plants. Nothing complicated. Same can be done with algae. It really isn’t that involved but we do like complexity as a means of showing how amazing we are at keeping something complicated. Sometimes KISS all that’s needed.

To each their own. That’s all that matters. I’m back to leaning towards a Fuge. It’s a hobby. Not space exploration for me.

Hmmmm…. I personally don’t see any issues with people experimenting with all of the various devices you mentioned. It is hobby but I do have issue with people killing the animals because of experimenting, the corals did not go in the tank voluntarily.

Also if you feel that grabbing algae, lights (adjusting lights) , adding all types of potions (iron, manganese, PO4/NO4 like a mad scientist) is fun all the power to you as long as your coral are well and puffy. It is your sand box and I have no right to tell you how to do it.

I have been in this hobby for only 5 years (add 1 when I did some reading on what to do). I do like to follow KISS principles and while I tried fuge it just did not work out for me and I have closet full of other reefing tools that do not work. Unfortunately for many you have to try to figure out if it works or not.

But pictures are worth 1000 words:
Nutrition levels:

Some corals in my tank:

As for filtration I use Skimmer and activated carbon (50ml changed every 4 weeks).

I don’t have Fuge, fleece roller, sock, algae scrubbber, GFO, aluminum absorber etc… etc… As mentioned KISS principle.

But I try to have as much as possible the most important filter CORALS (coral mass) and I am happy to learn that skimmer is only 30% effective. That leaves more food for corals and that is my end goal.

Cheers

 

[GARRIGA]

Hmmmm…. I personally don’t see any issues with people experimenting with all of the various devices you mentioned. It is hobby but I do have issue with people killing the animals because of experimenting, the corals did not go in the tank voluntarily.

Also if you feel that grabbing algae, lights (adjusting lights) , adding all types of potions (iron, manganese, PO4/NO4 like a mad scientist) is fun all the power to you as long as your coral are well and puffy. It is your sand box and I have no right to tell you how to do it.

I have been in this hobby for only 5 years (add 1 when I did some reading on what to do). I do like to follow KISS principles and while I tried fuge it just did not work out for me and I have closet full of other reefing tools that do not work. Unfortunately for many you have to try to figure out if it works or not.

But pictures are worth 1000 words:
Nutrition levels:

Some corals in my tank:

As for filtration I use Skimmer and activated carbon (50ml changed every 4 weeks).

I don’t have Fuge, fleece roller, sock, algae scrubbber, GFO, aluminum absorber etc… etc… As mentioned KISS principle.

But I try to have as much as possible the most important filter CORALS (coral mass) and I am happy to learn that skimmer is only 30% effective. That leaves more food for corals and that is my end goal.

Cheers

Have you tried just running a refugium vs skimmer?

Nothing mad scientist about dosing iron. We dose calcium, for example. It really isn't that complicated as I've mentioned several times already. Plus who said anything about killing life with these experiments? The use of algae was documented by Dr Adey who at the time failed to grasp the use of minor and trace although that was already known in the 70s and before by those maintaining FW plants. This isn't new news. Just not apparently mainstream. Plants as a form of filtration predate skimmers. I know. I was actually around when skimmers came in bode.

Know what else isn't mainstream yet still works, if applied correctly? Undergravel filtration. Larger biomass to process nitrification and to some extent denitrification than any well populated display with so called porous rock. Just not very profitable. Power heads crippled it although reverse flow works. Can also be used in a sump in place of where socks go to capture and process detritus as it naturally decomposes as all detritus before it did for billions of years without foam participation.

More than one way to solve for nutrients and none of what I'm suggesting is experimental. It's been around long before man and not just reefers but being men and women we seek the fanciest solutions that get the most likes. Hence all the photos of success as if that justifies any one approach to others vs the fact biology isn't really that complicated.

Before anyone mentions foaming at the shore line. Where exactly do people think the decomposing foam goes?

 

[GARRIGA]

Had found this when I started thinking again about setting up a reef tank. Confirmed and informed me further on my decision to replace skimmers with nature.

Julian mentions a DSB but my approach has been to use coarse to fine gravel to capture and decompose detritus. The algae to then remove those nutrients but did consider carbon dosing until realization of pH being a never ending battle in my air tight house. As we learn then we adjust

 

[DakotahSteel]

Redsea 1000s mixed reef and I’ve stopped skimming… with the way the roller mats operate I can barely keep nutrients in my system. I had it down to just 12 hours a day and even then I’ve stopped. Corals are happier and everything is growing and looking great.

 

[Morpheus77]

I’m currently running a Magtool DCSQ-50 on my AIO 14g. It stabilizes my ph, adds aeration is under 3” wide so it fits my AIO back chamber. I feel like it adds overall stability to my system.

I also still have my old skimmer, been dry for over a decade…. Still works like a champ. If I ever set my old 75g back up it will get put back into service

How long did it take for your SQ 50 to break in? Also, what are the gaps for in the bottom of the chamber? The instructions note "Gap A and Gap B" but no explanation.

 

[19Mateo83]

It took it about two weeks to get good, consistent skim. I haven’t had to adjust it since. I believe the gaps you are referring to is the adjustment for water leaving the skimmer. The body rotates to adjust the water level inside the skimmer by regulating the water at the point it exits the skimmer body. As long as you have a steady water level this is a rock solid skimmer. I run mine set as deep as the top of the external sponge and pump running at about 40%. I rotate the body to set the internal water level to where the bubbles break right where the body meets the neck. It produced good dark sludge and I have to empty it about twice a week. Hope this helps.

 

[Morpheus77]

It took it about two weeks to get good, consistent skim. I haven’t had to adjust it since. I believe the gaps you are referring to is the adjustment for water leaving the skimmer. The body rotates to adjust the water level inside the skimmer by regulating the water at the point it exits the skimmer body. As long as you have a steady water level this is a rock solid skimmer. I run mine set as deep as the top of the external sponge and pump running at about 40%. I rotate the body to set the internal water level to where the bubbles break right where the body meets the neck. It produced good dark sludge and I have to empty it about twice a week. Hope this helps.

Awesome, good to know. Bought this same model, and it's been running about a day and a half and just wasn't sure about break in time, not really producing skimmate at the moment, but just needs more time I guess. So is your water level in the 7-8" range? Once it broke in, the dial is about 40%, and running right below the collection cup, and this is your sweet spot? At least that gives me a starting point, the instructions are lacking on this one. Just says keep water level at 7-8", oh and please note Gap A and B. Lol

 

[19Mateo83]

Awesome, good to know. Bought this same model, and it's been running about a day and a half and just wasn't sure about break in time, not really producing skimmate at the moment, but just needs more time I guess. So is your water level in the 7-8" range? Once it broke in, the dial is about 40%, and running right below the collection cup, and this is your sweet spot? At least that gives me a starting point, the instructions are lacking on this one. Just says keep water level at 7-8", oh and please note Gap A and B. Lol

I can take pictures for you tonight when I get home.

 

[Morpheus77]

I can take pictures for you tonight when I get home.

Man that would awesome! I would appreciate it. I have reached out to magtool for all these questions yesterday morning, and still haven't heard back yet.

 

[FishTruck]

life reef. You can run any pump you want (cheap JAEBO DC is my current choice), easy to upgrade / clean and it just works. I have been thinking about a longer neck so I can run the waterline above the main body of the skimmer and make the cleaning easier.

I have gone skimmer less for days or weeks without any apparent ill effects, but, the amount of crap that comes out makes me think I will do better with a skimmer over the long haul.

 

[ReefGeezer]

The corals , bacteria, and other organisms in the system seem to use/consume/bind more nitrogen, phosphate, and DOC than feeding my reasonably high fish bioload produces. I still have to dose N, P and organic carbon (in the form of Reef Energy AB+) to maintain some available nutrients and keep the corals looking hap

Even though the tank is pretty mature and runs on the low nutrient side, I still run a skimmer as a "safety valve". It's not a super effective model anyway, and is set to run very dry. I don't think it removes much in the way of DOC on a regular basis. I do like having it though. When I see things looking a little too green/brown because I've overfed the tank... again... I just adjust the skimmer to skim a wetter and that usually solves my problem.