Toddlers climbing aquariums, will it tip?

[Crabs McJones]

my wife is the devil, but also an angel........

Good save my friend ;Hilarious;Hilarious

 

[BigJohnny]

Don't argue with the wife. You can strap the stand to the wall.
Plus you really need to baby proof the stand doors and any cabinet that has any fish supplies.

No one said anything about arguing. Also, like I said, I'm putting locks on everything.

 

[Greybeard]

Using an equation for Torque F(mass) * l(mass) = F(applied) * height

If the cabinet door is 16" long, extended at 90°, tank weighs 1000 lbs, and is 64" tall (overall)... It'd take 250 lbs applied to the door to move the tank.

I'd assume the door hinges will separate before you can load 250 lbs on them...

Yes, this ignores many aspects that would impact the real result... assumes a homogeneous, square load, non-elastic floor, etc. Best I could do with given measurements.

 

[mfinn]

Wouldn't even know where to get a tether strong enough to prevent 1000lbs+ from tipping over, but also, that would only tether the stand. The tank could still fall over, technically. I'm just playing devils advocate here because my wife is the devil, but also an angel........

Tethering the stand would probably calm her down a bit though. Have you done this?[/QUOTE

I only meant that trying to convince her with math might not work as well as a metal strap from the top of the stand ( as high as you can) to the wall into the sheetrock and into a stud.
Chances are it would take more weight on the open doors than is possible to apply, but even little things can make a big difference.

There is alot of news stories going around lately about dressers tripping over with kids being hurt or worse. So it's a valid worry.
I went through it with my kids and grandkids.

 

[jakeh22]

Be like my father taught me. The tank is a no crawling, standing, playing zone. I would explain how dangerous it is and try and get it through to them. When I was little my brother had a 50 gallon and was tapping it with his foot while laying on his stomach watching tv. It shattered glass, fish and water were everywhere and ya he got cut idk man I get scared when my poodle plays near it

 

[Elegance Coral]

Why not just teach the child that the tank is to look at but not touch?
By the time the child is large and strong enough to tip over a 90 gallon tank, she should surely know better.

 

[jakeh22]

Just tell your wife you have to sell the child she’s a liability

 

[BigJohnny]

Using an equation for Torque F(mass) * l(mass) = F(applied) * height

If the cabinet door is 16" long, extended at 90°, tank weighs 1000 lbs, and is 64" tall (overall)... It'd take 250 lbs applied to the door to move the tank.

I'd assume the door hinges will separate before you can load 250 lbs on them...

Yes, this ignores many aspects that would impact the real result... assumes a homogeneous, square load, non-elastic floor, etc. Best I could do with given measurements.

Thanks greybeard, by cabinet do you mean the canopy?

My stand door is just a magnetic removable panel. I'm basically trying to determine how much weight would need to be hung from the top front of the tank, essentially. I think the canopy would break or come off before the tank would tip though, it only weighs like 50lbs.

 

[csb123]

How about bolting the stand to the wall as insurance (or assurance.)

 

[mahindra.dev]

Its not possible to tip the tank. With that said, when I started mine, i had a gate near the tank, just to make my toddler aware that its a NO FLY zone for him. He got used to it, just like the TV. Doesnt go near it. I removed all the gates now. It took about 4 months to get him used to it. With that said when he gets mad, he flings whatever he has in his hands and I had near miss on both Tank and TV. Now he gets time out when he does that.

Just a thought. See if gates will add some comfort. But soon enough your daughter will help. Thats what my son does.

 

[BigJohnny]

Why not just teach the child that the tank is to look at but not touch?
By the time the child is large and strong enough to tip over a 90 gallon tank, she should surely know better.

Never said I wasn't going to do that : ) Like I said, this is more about easing my wife's nerves. I also am curious how much weight it would take. I'm pretty sure I could do it, or at least break the glass/tank. I weigh 225 though.

 

[BigJohnny]

Its not possible to tip the tank. With that said, when I started mine, i had a gate near the tank, just to make my toddler aware that its a NO FLY zone for him. He got used to it, just like the TV. Doesnt go near it. I removed all the gates now. It took about 4 months to get him used to it. With that said when he gets mad, he flings whatever he has in his hands and I had near miss on both Tank and TV. Now he gets time out when he does that.

Just a thought. See if gates will add some comfort. But soon enough your daughter will help. Thats what my son does.

Oh the room will be locked at all times if I'm not in it, for sure.

 

[BigJohnny]

Again I'm looking for some math/physics calculations here, not tips on how to prevent it from happening, I got that covered lol, but thanks!

 

[mahindra.dev]

Ok. Mine is in the living room and he is around the tank all the time.

I think It’s about teaching.. before there was a gate in front of his chair. Now my son want to help me in cleaning the glass. For fun see pics

 

[Brew12]

Just to be clear, my kid isnt actually climbing my aquarium, shes only 5 months old. My wife however is officially freaking out about the idea of my aquarium tipping over onto our daughter. She has this image of her climbing up the front of the tank/canopy when shes older and tipping it over onto herself. I have locks on the door and don't let kids out of my sight, but still.

Can any of you math/physics guys out there tell me how much lbs of force (estimate, I understand there are many variables) it would require to do so?

Stand is 48.5" long x 18.75" deep x 40" tall
Made by 2x4s with a 2x6 top frame. Rocket engineer standard diy design

Tank is a 90g 48x18x24, sump is a 40g 36x18x17 about half full.
Canopy is 3/4" ply and 18" tall 5 sided plywood box, essentially

Tank and stand are level, across 4 joists up against a load bearing wall.

Thanks!

To calculate the force needed to pull this down on top of herself, the math works like this. This is a Tipping Moment equation. Top heavy or bottom heavy doesn't impact the tipping force required. It does impact how far it needs to tip before it continues to tip on its own. I am going to convert all of the measurements to metric since that is what I normally work with. Assuming around 1000lb total weight pushing at very top edge of aquarium.

Force * the height the force is applied at = mass * distance from center of gravity

Force * (1.62m) = (4400n) * (0.24m) = 651n or 146 pounds of force. Odds are your aquarium is heavier so you can consider this a worst case.

 

[dutch27]

Greybeard has it basically correct. You're looking at an overturning moment though, not torque. It's force x offset to point of overturning, forces passing through the overturning point do not contribute to overturning. Meaning you could apply downward force to the front face of the tank, and nothing happens until the tank or stand fail from the stress being applied.

Assuming the front of the tank is the point of rotation, you'd have:

1000# acting down, at 0.75' horizontal offset from the front of the tank
Y# acting down, 0.25' from the tank - on the 3" lip on the stand, assuming a kid is hanging from the stand directly. 48.5" stand leaves 0.25' on each side of the tank.

To solve for Y:
1000# x 0.75' = Y# x 0.25' - right side of the equation is trying to rotate the tank, left is resisting. To overturn, you need "Y" to be large enough for the right side to be bigger than the left.

Y > 3000# to rotate the tank. (750 #-FT/0.25 FT)

Extend the moment arm to 16" (1.3') for hanging on a cabinet door as Greybeard suggests, and Y > 576#

Let's go a bit further, and assume a 50# toddler. What does the moment arm need to be to flip the tank?
(1000# x 0.75')/50# = 15'.

A 200# adult, body weight only? 3.75'

If you tried to flip the stand in a fit of rage?
750#-ft/1.5ft => Needing to apply over 500# of force.

It all seems very implausible to me that a child, or even adult, would flip a full 90g tank by hanging on the stand or the tank.

Push down on the front of the stand with your body weight, I'm sure you already know without math the tank won't go anywhere. Maybe a show of physics in action will make the wife feel better.

Edit: Post above me went up while I posting this, we have some different answers, I'm confident in mine, but our conclusions are the same.

 

[Brew12]

Greybeard has it basically correct. You're looking at an overturning moment though, not torque. It's force x offset to point of overturning, forces passing through the overturning point do not contribute to overturning. Meaning you could apply downward force to the front face of the tank, and nothing happens until the tank or stand fail from the stress being applied.

Assuming the front of the tank is the point of rotation, you'd have:

1000# acting down, at 0.75' horizontal offset from the front of the tank
Y# acting down, 0.25' from the tank - on the 3" lip on the stand, assuming a kid is hanging from the stand directly. 48.5" stand leaves 0.25' on each side of the tank.

To solve for Y:
1000# x 0.75' = Y# x 0.25' - right side of the equation is trying to rotate the tank, left is resisting. To overturn, you need "Y" to be large enough for the right side to be bigger than the left.

Y > 3000# to rotate the tank. (750 #-FT/0.25 FT)

Extend the moment arm to 16" (1.3') for hanging on a cabinet door as Greybeard suggests, and Y > 576#

Let's go a bit further, and assume a 50# toddler. What does the moment arm need to be to flip the tank?
(1000# x 0.75')/50# = 15'.

A 200# adult, body weight only? 3.75'

If you tried to flip the stand in a fit of rage?
750#-ft/1.5ft => Needing to apply over 500# of force.

It all seems very implausible to me that a child, or even adult, would flip a full 90g tank by hanging on the stand or the tank.

Push down on the front of the stand with your body weight, I'm sure you already know without math the tank won't go anywhere. Maybe a show of physics in action will make the wife feel better.

Edit: Post above me went up while I posting this, we have some different answers, I'm confident in mine, but our conclusions are the same.

We have different answers, but we addressed it from different perspectives. Both of which I feel are important. I used a moment of tipping, you used rotational force. Both are important for the two main mechanisms a tank can be tipped over with. It just turns out that with a tank this size it is easier to tip it over pushing/pulling from the very top than to use downward force from a lever at a reasonable height.

 

[dutch27]

We have different answers, but we addressed it from different perspectives. Both of which I feel are important. I used a moment of tipping, you used rotational force. Both are important for the two main mechanisms a tank can be tipped over with. It just turns out that with a tank this size it is easier to tip it over pushing/pulling from the very top than to use downward force from a lever at a reasonable height.

You're correct, I was looking at it more from a kid hanging on things than pushing/pulling on it, both of which are possible. I can now imagine a little kid having worked his way onto a stand, grabbing the top of a tank and leaning back, bracing against the stand, laughing with the pride of what he's accomplished, lol.

 

[BigJohnny]

To calculate the force needed to pull this down on top of herself, the math works like this. This is a Tipping Moment equation. Top heavy or bottom heavy doesn't impact the tipping force required. It does impact how far it needs to tip before it continues to tip on its own. I am going to convert all of the measurements to metric since that is what I normally work with. Assuming around 1000lb total weight pushing at very top edge of aquarium.

Force * the height the force is applied at = mass * distance from center of gravity

Force * (1.62m) = (4400n) * (0.24m) = 651n or 146 pounds of force. Odds are your aquarium is heavier so you can consider this a worst case.

Thank you brew, definitely lower than I thought but still much higher than a child could create by climbing. This is to just get it to start to tip as well right? Not to complete the process? You would obviously need to take into consideration the width of the aquarium stand and the distribution of the weight (top heavy etc). All i am concerned about is starting it to tip though.

Thanks buD!

 

[BigJohnny]

You're correct, I was looking at it more from a kid hanging on things than pushing/pulling on it, both of which are possible. I can now imagine a little kid having worked his way onto a stand, grabbing the top of a tank and leaning back, bracing against the stand, laughing with the pride of what he's accomplished, lol.

This is exactly the scenario my wife was imagining. So that would require the 146lbs brew calculated (about) or the 500+ lbs you calculated?